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Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

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Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#31

Post by onion2k »

scantis wrote: post #7

If any of the planet saving meat substitute promises are true, such a fake meat patty would cost a tenth of the beef equivalent and it would dominate the market. I read somewhere you would need 25 kg of feed to produce 1 kg of beef, ergo one could potentially produce 25 times the amount of substitute. Obviously that isn't true and such a patty is a specialized product of various highly processed plant matter. It is a…

If any of the planet saving meat substitute promises are true, such a fake meat patty would cost a tenth of the beef equivalent and it would dominate the market.

That would only be true if the cost of the patty was only thing that impacted the price to the consumer, but everything else like transporting the thing to a store, paying the store staff to sell it, paying for marketing, branding, etc, paying taxes on it, are essentially the same regardless of whether the patty is made of cows or plants. A patty that costs 0.25c to make could be reduced to 0.01c to make, which would reduce the price in the market from 5.99 to 5.74...

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#32

Post by samuli »

scantis wrote: post #7

If any of the planet saving meat substitute promises are true, such a fake meat patty would cost a tenth of the beef equivalent and it would dominate the market. I read somewhere you would need 25 kg of feed to produce 1 kg of beef, ergo one could potentially produce 25 times the amount of substitute. Obviously that isn't true and such a patty is a specialized product of various highly processed plant matter. It is a…

86% of feed is grown on land [1], which is not suitable for growing human food crops.

[1]: https://www.agfoundation.org/common-questions/view/could-mor...

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#33

Post by shapefrog »

I dont understand the obsession with reproducing meat out of plants. There are many plant based meals that are excellent without pretending to be bacon or steak or burgers.

There is not, and should not be an industry trying to making pasta-based lettuce or potato-based lemons.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#34

Post by helsinkiandrew »

joesb wrote: post #14

What is this article's obsession with things being "processed" food? Is "processed" the new "chemical"? It's like the article trying to keep repeating the words "processed", "ultra-processed", "hyper-processed" as if it's some scary boogey man.

> ... as if it's some scary boogey man

In a way processed food is a scary boogey man - whether animal or plant based, processed foods are bad at providing nutrients to our bodies and can be packed with excessive amounts of salt and other substances.

https://www.lhsfna.org/the-many-health-risks-of-processed-fo...

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#35

Post by ars »

joesb wrote: post #14

What is this article's obsession with things being "processed" food? Is "processed" the new "chemical"? It's like the article trying to keep repeating the words "processed", "ultra-processed", "hyper-processed" as if it's some scary boogey man.

Agreed: "made from processed ingredients such as pea protein, potato starch and potassium chloride"

Since when is potassium chloride a processed ingredient? I think the author just doesn't know enough chemistry. And you can make potato starch by shredding a potato and drying the resulting water - that's not really what I think of by "processed".

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#36

Post by dragonwriter »

317070 wrote: post #20
scantis wrote: post #7

If any of the planet saving meat substitute promises are true, such a fake meat patty would cost a tenth of the beef equivalent and it would dominate the market. I read somewhere you would need 25 kg of feed to produce 1 kg of beef, ergo one could potentially produce 25 times the amount of substitute. Obviously that isn't true and such a patty is a specialized product of various highly processed plant matter. It is a…

If your story is true, it is remarkable it is not universally true. E.g. in the Netherlands the prices are more competitive, and sometimes even turned. [0] The vegetarian equivalent has been cheaper there than the real meat thing, although the process for both is not very different in the EU than in the US. [0] https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2022/07/26/plant-based...

> If your story is true, it is remarkable it is not universally true.

Not really.

> E.g. in the Netherlands the prices are more competitive, and sometimes even turned.

Meat prices relative to non-meat food prices are much higher than in the US (taxation on a lot of the things that drive the additional costs of meat play a role here.) So, yes, it stands to reason that plant-based meat substitutes, using similar process that adds similar (proportional) cost to the raw materials (actual production costs and margins) would remain more competitive with real meat than it is in the US.

And with a number of EU countries (and I think there are EU-wide proposals, as well) discussing “meat taxes” as part of climate efforts, that’s quite possibly going to get more pronounced.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#37

Post by alvah »

joesb wrote: post #14

What is this article's obsession with things being "processed" food? Is "processed" the new "chemical"? It's like the article trying to keep repeating the words "processed", "ultra-processed", "hyper-processed" as if it's some scary boogey man.

There are many millions of people who believe that, generally, the less processed, ie the closer to it's natural state any food item is, the better it is for you (or the less bad it is for you). Are you not aware of this?

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#38

Post by frankzander »

gloryjulio wrote: post #5

We already have cheap beans and tofu. Thanks

Turns out to be true tbh. I've tasted all kinds of fake meat and sausages and some is pretty good. But at the end tofu (pulled is the best) and saitan (not satan) is the easiest and most versatile. You can do almost anything with it. Chickpeas, beans and bean-cheese (aka tofu) and except from spices and herbs nothing more is needed.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#39

Post by alvah »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #3

I've been vegan for 35 years and the thought of eating a burger that tastes like meat turns my stomache. If you're a meat eater that wants to reduce consumption of animals then do that in the other (healthier) meals and have a decent animal burger once a week/fortnight. If you're eating burgers much more regularly then you're probably better off getting more variation into your diet and than eating highly processed v…

I don't think this line of "persuasion" is going to rally many to the cause.

Re: Plant-based meat is turning out to be a flop

#40

Post by abliefern »

Moldoteck wrote: post #29

Maybe unpopular opinion, but for me, best plant based patties are those that do not try to replicate meat taste. I much prefer patties made from actual plants&vegetables/mushrooms/chickpeas/beans like potato, carrot, some spices and so on. They have like actual 'natural' flavor, almost like something homemade. Those that add a ton of additives often taste awful, even beyond/moving mountains...

That's a misunderstanding. Fake meat products don't contain "a ton of additives".
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