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Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

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Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#31

Post by echelon »

erikerikson wrote: post #12
coding123 wrote: post #9

AI Is the PERFECT name for all of this stuff. Artificial Intelligence. He's arguing because it's artificial it shouldn't be called artificial.

> He's arguing because it's artificial it shouldn't be called artificial. No, he's arguing that it shouldn't be called intelligent because it is not.

I think we'll find out that neither are we. I'd wager that there are a handful of breakthroughs we'll make in the next decade and a half that will give us the keys to unlocking human-level intelligence. And from there, we'll quickly be relegated to the bottom of the "intelligence" food chain.

Our brains are using some clever tricks. There's no magic at all.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#32

Post by wodenokoto »

eldenring wrote: post #10
randomdata wrote: post #7

We'd do better to stop conflating AI with machine learning. Machine learning can be one way to create AI, but it doesn't end there.

I see people saying this all over the internet, but for the entire history of AI, Machine Learning has either been the only, or the most effective method by far of solving actual problems. Everyone who thinks otherwise should read this. http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html

Didn't expert systems rule in early AI research?

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#33

Post by randomdata »

m00x wrote: post #25
randomdata wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is reasoning other than predicting what next step is most likely to produce a desired outcome? That's all it feels like the mind is doing. Is there a more formal take?

> Reason is the capacity of consciously applying logic by drawing conclusions from new or existing information, with the aim of seeking the truth. ChatGPT doesn't care what word it puts in front of you, and if it's true or not. Reasoning must have a goal, and current LLMs don't. All it does it repeat what are the most common words that they've seen. It also doesn't think. It's a completely forward process. It's defin…

One of the challenges faced by ChatGPT was in seeing it produce conversational-style output instead of simply the most common words that it saw.

I'm not sure your definition really clears up how reasoning or thinking differ from "basic" statistical processes. Granted, perhaps it is not explainable. If it were we would understand it well enough to replicate it.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#34

Post by petilon »

Artificial Intelligence has been around for ages. It is even referenced in Greek mythology [1]. The definition of AI changes with time. When calculators were first invented it was considered AI, because back then anything that could do arithmetic was considered intelligent. Today ChatGPT is considered AI, but 10 years from now it won't be. Whatever is at the edge of technology is considered AI, the rest isn't.

[1] https://news.stanford.edu/2019/02/28/ancient-myths-reveal-ea...

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#35

Post by Spivak »

erikerikson wrote: post #12
coding123 wrote: post #9

AI Is the PERFECT name for all of this stuff. Artificial Intelligence. He's arguing because it's artificial it shouldn't be called artificial.

> He's arguing because it's artificial it shouldn't be called artificial. No, he's arguing that it shouldn't be called intelligent because it is not.

Eh it doesn’t have to be AGI to be intelligent. We call playing computer opponents in games “verses the AI” and they’re dumb as rocks in some cases.

Intelligence how we actually use the term just means semi-autonomous decision making system — from how to flank you in CoD, to the best move in chess, to the best move in tic tac toe, to the best reply in a chat.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#36

Post by Dalewyn »

To this day I still consider what many call "AI" today as just overgrown Word macros. These contraptions, as innovative and black box as they are, are not artificial intelligence.

This misnomer has led to needlessly complicating the conversations concerning things like Stable Diffusion and ChatGPT, too. What many call "AI" are just extremely complicated and mindless tools, and they need to be treated as such both legally and socially.

We might achieve artificial intelligence some day, but today is not that day.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#37

Post by CuriousCosmic »

eldenring wrote: post #10
randomdata wrote: post #7

We'd do better to stop conflating AI with machine learning. Machine learning can be one way to create AI, but it doesn't end there.

I see people saying this all over the internet, but for the entire history of AI, Machine Learning has either been the only, or the most effective method by far of solving actual problems. Everyone who thinks otherwise should read this. http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html

Ultimately the only thing that holds true about AI is Tesler's Theorem:

    Artificial intelligence is whatever hasn't been done yet
Machine Learning is only still artificial intelligence because we haven't figured it out. Ultimately ML is just fancy control theory. Once the field is sufficiently explored, it will slowly stop being AI and will start being treated as a subset of control theory instead. I doubt it'll happen any time soon but it'll happen eventually.

This is in the same way that algorithms, combinatorics, and graph theory when applied were seen as AI anywhere from 70 years ago to as little as ~25 years ago. Those fields' applications to unsolved computing problems (that humans could do) was what made them AI and once we solved those problems, they (and the techniques used) stopped being AI.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#38

Post by m00x »

randomdata wrote: post #33
m00x wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reason is the capacity of consciously applying logic by drawing conclusions from new or existing information, with the aim of seeking the truth. ChatGPT doesn't care what word it puts in front of you, and if it's true or not. Reasoning must have a goal, and current LLMs don't. All it does it repeat what are the most common words that they've seen. It also doesn't think. It's a completely forward process. It's defin…

One of the challenges faced by ChatGPT was in seeing it produce conversational-style output instead of simply the most common words that it saw. I'm not sure your definition really clears up how reasoning or thinking differ from "basic" statistical processes. Granted, perhaps it is not explainable. If it were we would understand it well enough to replicate it.

> One of the challenges faced by ChatGPT was in seeing it produce conversational-style output instead of simply the most common words that it saw.

Do you have a source for that? I've implemented GPT from scratch and I don't see anywhere that doesn't just take the current output + input as attention and produces the next word. The loss being if it correctly guessed what would be the next word according to context and position.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#39

Post by jasmer »

I think 'Adaptive Algorithm's would be better.

But he's missing something key: the ever elusive lure of true, AGI is like crack to the media.

Watch how Altman and others in the press use that kind of language in small doses to titillate the marketplace.

Buzzwords get a lot of funding going.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#40

Post by Spivak »

m00x wrote: post #22
robomartin wrote: post #17

Stop calling everything a robot while you are at it. Once marketing folk get their paws on terms they can lose or expand their meaning. It's just the way it is.

That's probably because the definition of `robot` is different in almost every dictionary. Cambridge defines it as: a machine controlled by a computer that is used to perform jobs automatically Others say it has to look human to be considered a robot.

This is a misunderstanding of what dictionaries are for. They’re not authoritative sources of what words mean, they’re a record of all the different ways a word has been used.

If people use the term robot to refer to assembly like machines then as far as the dictionary is concerned those are robots now. Someone who comes across a text and doesn’t know what the author is saying when they talk about robots used in manufacturing should be able to find that usage in a dictionary.

And there’s no reason these two terms can’t coexist happily enough as robot (manufacturing) and robot (automaton).

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