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Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

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Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#71

Post by throwaway11823 »

kipple wrote: post #53
throwaway11823 wrote: post #26

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

> I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." Is it possible you buried the lede? I'm a fellow sender of long strings of text messages. I've found that not everyone appreciates my potentially sprawling/parallel communication style. They don't always have the time or capacity to pick through all my words and respond thoughtfully…

I think that's more or less what happened, I don't blame them. Just demonstrating that understanding yourself and expressing yourself clearly are necessary but not sufficient to be understood and to feel seen.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#72

Post by bittercynic »

whstl wrote: post #52
throwaway11823 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are lovely and compassionate people, they're simply unable to extend that to me, partly because they're blinded by societal expectations of men (they often don't really see me as an emotional creature), partly because they lean on me for support, and so the idea that I might not be an unshakable pillar is terrifying for them. When I go to them for support, it's not that they don't want to provide it, it's that t…

I can relate. I actually had a friend tell me "if you ever think of killing yourself, get in touch with me" after an acquaintance committed suicide. Well, I did have a depressive episode and got in touch for help, but got radio silence. Soon after the friendship was dead, he lost interest and couldn't hang out. Now I rely on therapy only.

I don't want to excuse your ex-friend's behavior, but I'm afraid a lot of people have no idea how to be of use to a friend who's going through such an episode.

Suggestions to those who don't know what to do:

Can I take you out to lunch? I found a new spot I think you might like.

Want to go to and take a walk?

Want to play catch?

Want to come over for dinner?

I was hung up for a long time because I don't know how to solve any serious personal problems, so I thought I couldn't be of any use. But just being there for someone, inviting them to something nice, and being a good listener can help. And it might be enjoyable for you, too.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#73

Post by deadc0de »

fleddr wrote: post #49
throwaway11823 wrote: post #26

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

"As a man, I have lots of people in my life who love me, but they consistently fail to take notice of my emotional needs." Although every man's circles are different, your experience is highly common. I'm going to intentionally dramatize a little to get the point across efficiently. Men effectively live in an emotional desert. Showing emotion, vulnerability or dependency is discouraged, dismissed or even ridiculed. M…

"Men are judged by utility."

I didn't realize this until recently. Rude awakening. Even the most close relationships turn out to be quite transactional.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#74

Post by HardlyCurious »

throwaway11823 wrote: post #26

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

It's a shitty situation, and it seems all too common for men.

The usual knee jerk response is to blame the men for being unable to communicate effectively.

I think the sad truth is that not everyone is cared about equally, and sometimes it is everyone else's fault.

But it isn't like you can get mad about it. That is just going to push people away and make them bitter toward you.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#75

Post by HardlyCurious »

Fauntleroy wrote: post #29
throwaway11823 wrote: post #26

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

You might need to surround yourself with more compassionate people, if you truly feel that no one is willing to consider your emotional wants and needs.

It isn't a choice for most men to just surround themselves with compassionate people.

It's hard to find them for one, and often you won't really know until you have gotten to know them a bit. And this assumes they are even interested in exploring a friendship with you.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#76

Post by vorpalhex »

throwaway11823 wrote: post #26

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

One way we can help people help us is to give them an ask - "I feel like garbage. Can you deal with dinner?" or "I feel like garbage. Do you have time to chat with me?"

People need scripts and many people struggle to provide active support to someone they view as supportive. Giving them a script can help.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#77

Post by lkois »

rjzzleep wrote: post #23
standardUser wrote: post #13

I really like the thrust of this argument (loneliness is about not being understood) but I think the solution is off the mark... > So it’s your task to make others understand you There is another task that is just as important. You need to find people who are capable of understanding you . It may sound like a cart/horse issue where you need to understand enough about yourself to find people who are receptive. That my…

Is sexuality the only conflicting thing we can think of nowadays? I can think of at least 10 things people might freak out about me, without even getting to thinking about what sexuality I may have. In general I agree with the premise of "You need to find people who are capable of understanding you". It's actually a combination of that and your feeling about yourself. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I'll just ca…

As far as making their point goes, sexuality is a pretty convenient placeholder for issues of identity.

As for reaching personal balance independently, it's a much shorter path to self acceptance moving from environments that stifle you to one's that encourage. Perhaps largely because it answers the question of whether there might actually be something wrong with you, and not everyone else. Before even getting into the possibility of actually thriving.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#78

Post by aritmo »

gryn wrote: post #9
jonsen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many thinks traumas in adult life are linked to childhood addition.

Can childhood substraction also be the cause ? /s I'm guessing both of you mean addiction?

It was a typo, indeed I meant "addiction".

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#79

Post by yesenadam »

xyzwave wrote: post #27

"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

I think he's referring to misunderstanding their message, which is...orthogonal to understanding them as people or not.

Related: The entire introduction to the first edition of GK Chesterton's book on his friend George Bernard Shaw (1909): “Most people say that they agree with Bernard Shaw or that they do not understand him. I am the only person who understands him, and I do not agree with him.”

https://archive.org/details/georgebernardsha0000unse/page/n9...

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#80

Post by acdha »

rjzzleep wrote: post #23
standardUser wrote: post #13

I really like the thrust of this argument (loneliness is about not being understood) but I think the solution is off the mark... > So it’s your task to make others understand you There is another task that is just as important. You need to find people who are capable of understanding you . It may sound like a cart/horse issue where you need to understand enough about yourself to find people who are receptive. That my…

Is sexuality the only conflicting thing we can think of nowadays? I can think of at least 10 things people might freak out about me, without even getting to thinking about what sexuality I may have. In general I agree with the premise of "You need to find people who are capable of understanding you". It's actually a combination of that and your feeling about yourself. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I'll just ca…

It’s not the only one but it’s a very good example of how social dynamics can change with the additional of new knowledge, even if it’s inconsequential for the learner. It’s reportedly better now but my gay friends all have these horrible stories about how people they used to get along with fine cut them off abruptly or even got violent once they came out. Most similar intensity responses are for things like racism where there’s not the surprise whiplash element.

Another one I’d use is leaving an insular religion but the way that works tends to mean fewer people have observed it (e.g. if you don’t hang around with fundamentalists you probably haven’t witnessed it first or second hand).

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