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Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

stan.bar

61–70 of 152 posts

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#61
Def #1 is way off. Loneliness is to feel that other people don't relate to you; to be misunderstood _can_ create this situation but so does different likes/dislikes, different moral premises, or even plain prejudice.

Def #2 assumes that there's no such thing as non-verbal knowledge. I wouldn't be so sure; if there's one thing that all that qualia crap shows, is that some things cannot be communicated verbally.

>the lack of understanding you by other people is caused by the lack of skills to explain yourself to others,

Even if someone accepts the heavily questionable premises ("definitions") #1 and #2, this is still problematic because it is an unwarranted assumption. It is not a logical consequence of the premises, even if dressed as such.

>Ultimately, you are the recipient of feeling understood or misunderstood, not others. So it’s your task to make others understand you.

GI/GO. Questionable premises + faulty reasoning = dumb "advice".

Some people will never understand you no matter how much you know yourself, and how good you are at explaining yourself to the others. And some people will never relate to you no matter how much they understand you.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#63

Def #1 is way off. Loneliness is to feel that other people don't relate to you; to be misunderstood _can_ create this situation but so does different likes/dislikes, different moral premises, or even plain prejudice. Def #2 assumes that there's no such thing as non-verbal knowledge. I wouldn't be so sure; if there's one thing that all that qualia crap shows, is that some things cannot be communicated verbally. >the l…

[deleted]

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#65

> the lack of understanding you by other people is caused by the lack of skills to explain yourself to others This is the point where the argument went off, I believe. People only listen to what they want to listen, and generally they care less, or won’t bother to care at all, if the topic is not somehow related with themselves. So no, the lack of understanding you by other people is usually not caused by the lack of…

Indeed, even my most empathetic, patient friends will struggle to care about a topic entirely unrelated to them for long. You do have to make an effort to find people who can relate to you in some dimension. That's why hobbies are a common suggesting for making friends, you immediately have common ground.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#66
post #49

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

"As a man, I have lots of people in my life who love me, but they consistently fail to take notice of my emotional needs." Although every man's circles are different, your experience is highly common. I'm going to intentionally dramatize a little to get the point across efficiently. Men effectively live in an emotional desert. Showing emotion, vulnerability or dependency is discouraged, dismissed or even ridiculed. M…

This is most likely why the vast majority of suicides are men.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#67
For me, loneliness is not a lack of understanding but a lack of connection. The main difference being understanding is often about "knowing" and connection is often about "not knowing" (or being comfortable with not knowing something).

I personally have felt the most lonely when I feel disconnected from how I'm feeling AND how someone else is feeling.

1) If I get too focused on how I'm feeling and distant from how others are feeling, I can start to believe that no one will ever understand me, or "get me."

2) If I'm too focused on how others are feeling and not on how I'm feeling, then I may feel a lot of resentment towards them for not paying attention to me.

3) If I'm not focused on either how I'm feeling or how they might be feeling, I can feel quite numb and empty.

So for me, what helps is trying to focus on how I'm feeling and how other people might be feeling, while also trying to focus on letting myself accept uncertainty for both of those things.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#68

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

> it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go.

I sometimes wonder if I feel more lonely when I "let it go" aka suppress how I'm feeling. I imagine if it were me, I may have felt annoyed or sad or confused that they didn't see the "I feel like garbage" part and didn't reply to it, and when I"m feeling courageous, sometimes I'll say that to them. I think I've noticed that when people have that deer in the headlights look, I can slowly start to suppress more and more things about how I'm feeling and then sometimes feel stuck, wanting to go deeper and also trying to respect that they may already feel overwhelmed.

I don't know if there's an answer in any of what I wrote above, just wanted to share how I can struggle with this as well.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#69
Not sure how seriously to take this but:

1) First of all, staying in the world of pure deductive reasoning, isn't this fallacious?

> lack of skills to explain yourself is caused by lack of understanding yourself.

It's: (can't explain) => (doesn't understand), not (doesn't understand) => (can't explain). (I.e., there could be other reasons you can't explain yourself well).

2) More seriously, I think the "if you can't explain it you don't understand it" adage is more about concepts than about people. A person is a complicated set of constantly changing thoughts and emotions, and I'm unsure that it's possible to explain the entire phenomenon of a given person "simply".

That said, I think there's definitely a nugget of truth here. Often you feeling lonely may be the result of you not expressing yourself openly or honestly with people around you.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#70

This article touches on something interesting but is woefully inaccurate to the point of causing harm. It devolves into almost an entreaty to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and take responsibility for not being understood. Being understood is a complete joke, it's simply not important and for many of us on extreme ends of the bell curve is effectively impossible. I was born with multiple heart defects, I was con…

Of course I can't say I understand you, but I've had to live with my share of secrets which others can't understand.

I was also born with a genetic disorder, and been going to doctors constantly since birth. Not a heart condition but had likely organ and brain damage so they were always checking my development as if they knew I would never amount to anything. Always on expensive medications and scared of losing insurance too.

Sorry about your parents, my parents are still alive, they helped so much.

I was also homeschooled after age 10, but couldn't even hang out with other kids (they could come over, but I couldn't go to them). And never sleepovers of course.

Dealing with so many limitations I also felt most at home with seniors, couldn't really relate to my peers.

I know I'll die earlier than others, that's fine, I learned to appreciate the time I have more.

I'm also in the very top % income for my age, I can't tell anyone of my friends how much I make besides the ones in similar jobs. Showed those doctors at least.

I've never even met someone with the same condition let alone became friends. And I have other secrets that I'm too paranoid to share.

That's extremely isolating. I just think I'm not meant for love and deep connections/understanding. I have good friends but they can't possibly understand what I've been through to laugh and have drinks together.

Then again, you can say the same thing about other people too, and they still manage to not be lonely.

I also made mistakes sometime, pushed people away because I was so used to being alone. But really what did I do wrong? How is it possible to fix?

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