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Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

stan.bar

41–50 of 152 posts

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#41
This article touches on something interesting but is woefully inaccurate to the point of causing harm. It devolves into almost an entreaty to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and take responsibility for not being understood.

Being understood is a complete joke, it's simply not important and for many of us on extreme ends of the bell curve is effectively impossible.

I was born with multiple heart defects, I was constantly at the cardiologist until about 15 with multiple surgeries and procedures. In all likelihood I will die relatively young.

My first memory and start of having memories was at 3, where I was about to go into surgery and might just die. A high probability of imminent death is the first remembered experience of my life.

I was fully grown by ~12 as a result of the stresses of surgery.

My parents both died when I was right around 20, a few years apart.

I started working fulltime at 15 to keep a roof over my families head and food on the table because of a combination of my fathers depression, the lies an old friend told him, my mothers poorly timed diagnosis of cancer and the evil state of pre-existing coverage rules pre-aca.

I was homeschooled after the age of 5.

I was not allowed to lift anything heavier than a jug of milk until 16 due to my heart problem.

I was not allowed to play organized sports.

I never had a birthday party with friend until 30 due to my birthdate.

My entire perspective on life is inverted, I am a dead person still living not an alive person avoiding death. This is fundemental and very very rarely understood.

Do you think at 7 any of my peers could understand me? No. Ditto as a teen and even into today. I am an extremely clear and concise communicator but I cannot inject complex, time layered, developmentally critical... insanity into a concise story that conveys the truth of living it. Not even as a novel.

The people I felt best understood by were a group I knew when I was 10 and they were in their late 70s and early 80s and about to die.

They played cards together at a senior citizens center, some traumas and life perspectives cannot be understood, it's a bell curve like so many things.

I am now in the top ~.5% of earnings for my cohort, this is also further isolating, I have a rare amount of resilience as well.

There are other unsusual things that are more common but still rare in and of themselves and compound the lack of shared reference points.

Small bits of my experience can be connected to by others now that I am older, the early loss of a parent, having a career as a child, the existential fear of returning to poverty, extreme poverty when young, homelessness, kids that had a leukemia relapse and the distancing that caused with their parents... but all together there is no one who can enter into my headspace, there is no cohesive framework of experiences for people to understand the extremes I have overcome.

Some trauma and experiences can smooth your edges and help you have the compassion to better connect, but at the extremes you just have to realize that being understood and being loved are not the same.

You can have a full life filled with love and many dear friends and community without being "understood".

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#42

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

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Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#43
post #8

This type of reasoning is so sketchy. Language is only roughly mapped to thought, it isn't an exact thing like mathematics.

I don’t know. I believe that language shapes reality.

For example, I decided I wanted to let go of latent homophobia by dropping a word from my vocabulary that was seen as fairly harmless by sis males when I was growing up. After consciously avoiding it and choosing not to say it, even in my mind, for a while, it truly left my pallet of words for expression. I do think that had a perceivable (to me) effect on my attitude and thinking.

How many esoteric words have you learned in life that helped you to better describe a situation? I look up any word I don’t know (in something of an OCD way). I’ve had many “aha“ moments where learning a word gave me a slightly greater ability to understand the world, hence “shaping” my view of it. It’s not exact, but I wouldn’t be so dismissive of the value in thinking about words and decisions on how to think about things.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#44
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents always do seem to find meaning in life after they multiply

It's definitely one of the factors.

I find that loneliness is often caused by a lack of integration.

P.S. Sorry if my comment is derivative.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#45
"Loneliness is when we are surrounded by people and feel misunderstood by others." By this definition a prisoner in solitary confinement is not lonely. That seems problematic. The overall argument might still be useful, but I wouldn't call these things definitions, just implications (IF you are surrounded by people and feel misunderstood by others THEN you feel lonely).

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#46

I like the structure and insight of the argument, but I think it needs some re-working. Definition 1 could be broadened to: "Loneliness is when we aren't known and loved by others." Loneliness can occur because we're socially isolated for some reason. It can also occur when we're with others who don't know us, because we're not willing or able to open up to them. This could be because we are afraid to be real with ot…

One can be known and loved by others, but lonely, marooned & castaway on an island. Alone by definition is just "all one" - no others, which is not #1. One would be better off consulting a dictionary before going on a definition tangent.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#47

Definition 1 is wildly inaccurate. Even if we take it as valid, how are you going to communicate who you are to others who aren't equipped to understand? As an extreme example, consider being dropped into another nation where they speak a language you have no knowledge of. Without shared language and culture, you can't hope to be understood. Doesn't mean you can't be surrounded by helpful, caring people (friends?), t…

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Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might need to surround yourself with more compassionate people, if you truly feel that no one is willing to consider your emotional wants and needs.

They are lovely and compassionate people, they're simply unable to extend that to me, partly because they're blinded by societal expectations of men (they often don't really see me as an emotional creature), partly because they lean on me for support, and so the idea that I might not be an unshakable pillar is terrifying for them. When I go to them for support, it's not that they don't want to provide it, it's that t…

I feel this one deeply. I was in a similar situation in a past relationship; The traditional male role of "unshakeable pillar" meant that support was a one directional flow only, and any mention of feeling down or bad would cause a huge fight or fear response.

Unfortunately I don't have any great advice to solve this, except that therapy can be really helpful here, if just to provide a compassionate person to talk to.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#49

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

"As a man, I have lots of people in my life who love me, but they consistently fail to take notice of my emotional needs."

Although every man's circles are different, your experience is highly common. I'm going to intentionally dramatize a little to get the point across efficiently.

Men effectively live in an emotional desert. Showing emotion, vulnerability or dependency is discouraged, dismissed or even ridiculed. Men lack a support system. They're often the last buck and there's nothing or nobody to back them up.

This is why to many men, their relation with their mother is holy. It's often the only source of genuine unconditional love and a safe place to be vulnerable. Of course, you can't even have that, this too is to be ridiculed, hence the many "your mum" jokes.

When men get sick, they're ridiculed for being such a baby. Here too a rare sign of vulnerability expressed is to be laughed at.

Men are judged by utility. Society doesn't care about men's needs or problems. They are willingly sacrificed in war, work, homeless on the streets, and in suicide without this even being a topic of mainstream interest.

The handful of reasonable feminists spotting how this complete indifference is a problem are shouted down by their radical counterparts, that have seized the movement. Not only is there no mainstream culture to care about men, it's openly hostile to men in general.

If I were to post my little lecture on a social network, I'd be piled on with: "oh you poor man, you have it sooooo bad lmao!!!"

Anyway, I know none of this helps, but I just wanted to share that your experience in many ways is the experience of many if not most men. And I think you analyzed the situation very well with the "deer in the headlights" remark.

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