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Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

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Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#181
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great advice. The only thing that's missing is to grind leetcode as hard as you can. As much as HN and Reddit hates leetcode, most companies still use it in some form. Getting good at leetcode-style questions will allow you to get through the first few interview stages more consistently. Then, in the later interview stages, you can show off your personal projects and open source contributions.

I've worked at multiple of the FAANG. Everyone acknowledges they study for the interview. You may occasionally get someone trying to make out they could pass without study but even then they acknowledged they studied. This isn't something to be arrogant about. It's a process designed to filter out those who'd refuse to study to get the job. You have to study. Doesn't matter if you have a PhD and write books on CS. St…

I graduated 20+ years ago from a top CS school, and this was the norm then as well, whether you wanted a job at a big company like Microsoft, a consulting company, or a hot tech startup.

The good news for me was that even though I had terrible grades, I knew how to code a Knight’s Tour or 8 Queens, work through some algorithm that appears to be N^2 but has a clever N solution, or if someone asked me about manholes, I could say “that’s a stupid question, here’s the default answer, and here’s why I think it’s a stupid question.”

I think I got 9 job offers from 10 interviews with a In short, studying for the test helped with the SAT’s and it helped get my first job. When I applied to a FANG years later, there was not leetcode, just different design questions or basic things like making sure I could reverse a linked list or implement substr without an off by one error.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#184
If you're a new grad then presumably you're optimising for experience, not salary. I think it will be harder to find a good job for while, but it shouldn't be impossible to find any old job which will provide some relevant industry experience.

Late 2020 to earlier 2021 was nuts for tech jobs. Companies were hiring people who were massively unqualified just because they needed someone. During that time I was getting calls from recruiters weekly practically begging me to quit my job for some new opportunity they were recruiting for and unable to fill. Imo there are a lot of devs out there right now who only got hired because the market during 2020-2021. I worry a little for those guys because they were punching way above their weight to begin with and I think they'll probably struggle to find something as good should they get laid off.

The other people who might struggle are those looking for jobs specifically in the tech industry or tech startups. As someone looking for work right now I have noticed there are fewer jobs from tech companies out there, but there's still plenty of tech jobs in industries like travel, finance, and retail. Everyone needs tech workers these days so a tech industry slow down isn't necessarily the end of the world for someone with tech skills.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#185
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great advice. The only thing that's missing is to grind leetcode as hard as you can. As much as HN and Reddit hates leetcode, most companies still use it in some form. Getting good at leetcode-style questions will allow you to get through the first few interview stages more consistently. Then, in the later interview stages, you can show off your personal projects and open source contributions.

I've worked at multiple of the FAANG. Everyone acknowledges they study for the interview. You may occasionally get someone trying to make out they could pass without study but even then they acknowledged they studied. This isn't something to be arrogant about. It's a process designed to filter out those who'd refuse to study to get the job. You have to study. Doesn't matter if you have a PhD and write books on CS. St…

Study doesn’t need to be intense. I got my current job with about 6 hours of leetcode and no CS degree (although I did take a small handful of CS courses)

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#186
post #184

If you're a new grad then presumably you're optimising for experience, not salary. I think it will be harder to find a good job for while, but it shouldn't be impossible to find any old job which will provide some relevant industry experience. Late 2020 to earlier 2021 was nuts for tech jobs. Companies were hiring people who were massively unqualified just because they needed someone. During that time I was getting c…

There are a lot of tech jobs in manufacturing and in logistics as well. I strongly agree that while the tech sector may have contracted, there are still plenty of tech jobs available.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#187
Maybe unpopular opinion, but if you can, look for companies that don’t hire too much remotely.

2 reasons: 1. Less competition. 2. (More important one IMO) For people starting their career, in person interactions are extremely valuable. You’ll learn a ton from hallway/lunch conversations. In your first few years, likely even more than from your job. YMMV, of course, but all those chats shaped me as an engineer.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#188
post #57

My advice to an undergrad is: Go to grad school. Now is the perfect time to apply, and generally CS/EE students get paid to attend by having their tuition paid for by their advisor and getting a stipend for research/TA jobs. There is also government money to be had. Ride out the storm in Grad school, gain some skills, and expand your network. When you finish the economy should be good again. If you're a grad student,…

Unless you already know you want to do something that requires a graduate degree, the opportunity cost is still too high even in this job market.

Even a crappy job in your field is going to make you financially better off than 2+ years in a graduate program that doesn't help you achieve your career goals.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#189
In my experience, teams getting laid off are generally (not always) experimental, high risk / high reward, horizon 2 type bets. Ie not the main function of the company or one of the major bets the company needs to succeed for their current strategy.

So one way to avoid being hired into a team like this is to ask a many questions centered around the impact of the team.

For example, - “what are some of the main accomplishments this team has had in the past?” - “what is the mission & vision of the team, and how is it aligned to the business operational plan?” - “what will happen to the company if this team fails on its biggest bets?”

This is naturally aimed towards bigger companies.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#190
I've been surrounded by people like you for decades no matter which coast I lived on or somewhere in the middle. Employment anxiety is an infectious culture, not a sensemaking operation. I'd suggest ignoring the cultural imperative and instead just go directly for what you want by following a seemingly non-existent path through old-fashioned touchpoints that can only be discovered by talking to others via beer, coffee, and multisyllabic small talk. My experience has been that the best gigs come from those birds-of-a-feather experiences and not whiteboard stunt monkey meetings. The corporation is just a different jungle and I'd suggest you don't really want to star in The Corporation anyhow and look for University, R&D labs, startups, design studios, etc. There are still some good gigs out there; they're just doing what pointy-haired bosses do, trading one set of workers for another, 10K at a time. Good luck finding your tribe no matter who, what, or where they are!
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