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Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

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431–440 of 486 posts

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but I mean, if a conversational AI would only be allowed to spit out mathematically correct statements, it would be extremely limited (and boring). I think what's important is for those mistakes to be evenly distributed among as many axis(s) as possible, and especially, not bias them towards one side of political thought.

how many sides do you suppose political thought has? Assuming there is more than one, how do you find the geometric center to avoid bias? If your training data is English text, will the AI be biased against early German philosophers and French political theorists? Of by "unbiased", you are simply referring to the American left-right axis? If so, do you mean the fiscal axis, or the social one?

Laughing at the idea that a geometric center between differing ideas is somehow the least biased place. This kind of thought is incredibly troubling because it seems to be widespread. People don't analyze underlying issues on their own anymore, they just see two different political "extremes" with two different positions and assume the answer must be somewhere in the middle. Its an outright rhetorical fallacy.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This poster that has just only learned of the word “woke” according to them I only just learned about how the term is used as an insult in your language. Again, I'm not from your country, so we don't necessarily use it the same way here (as an imported word), capiche? But apart from the word itself, we do have definitely imported the same ideology here, as well as the crazies who take it to an extreme. I'm not sayi…

The best way to prove braingenious wrong is by not engaging with him [1]. This is a pseudoanonymous internet forum - not responding and moving on with your life is a perfectly acceptable response to this situation [1]! If you’re not a far right troll, you gain nothing by trying to prove it [1]. [1] IF you’re not a far right troll Edit: FWIW I don’t believe you when you say “your language,” hence the [1]. “Capisce” is…

> The best way to prove braingenious wrong is by not engaging with him

Well, I like to give someone the benefit of the doubt when discussing these kind of contentious issues (up to a limit, of course). It has served me well in the past (here on HN, for example), and I've learned things that I wouldn't have learned otherwise (from people who hold different opinions than mine).

I also get bothered when I'm accused of something that I'm not, obviously. It's not always easy to move on when someone is saying blatantly false statements about you, as you can imagine.

> FWIW I don’t believe you when you say “your language,”

My native language is Portuguese. I was born and raised in Portugal and lived there well until after I was an adult. All of my family and all my childhood friends are Portuguese.

I learned English very early in my childhood, as part of my formal education, due to US cultural exports (i.e. Hollywood movies and TV shows that are broadcast in Portugal without dubbing, i.e. they have always been subtitled and therefore it's much easier to learn the language and become fluent in it) and due to my early childhood interest in programming.

I've always read lots of English prose, especially related to computers and programming (magazines, articles, documentation, websites, Youtube videos, source code, etc, etc). Almost all of this content is from the US, as you can imagine.

I've worked for a few US companies (mostly multinational ones, think FAANG-level) for many years, had many coworkers from all over the world (including many from the US) and always worked remotely, so both oral and written communication has always been in English.

Both due to my professional work and as a tourist, I've spent many months in the U.S., in total (close to a year).

Well into my adulthood, I've also lived for more than a decade in Spain, so I'm also a fluent Spanish speaker.

Also, for many years (perhaps since I started working) I've been reading and listening to way, way more English content than in the other languages I'm a fluent speaker of. This includes Hacker News and other news websites. It includes all media entertainment (Netflix, etc). For decades, I have stopped bothering to find Portuguese or Spanish subtitles anymore for video content due to their mediocre quality or lost meanings, although I do try to put English ones when it's easy to do so.

As another example, I almost exclusively follow English-speaking Twitter accounts (although some Spanish ones as well).

All of this English content is way, way more interesting to me than what I can find in Portuguese or even Spanish. It's not even remotely comparable.

I also don't bother at all with translations from English content which, when they exist at all (well, nowadays there is automated translation, but still), are inevitably mediocre or incomplete due to the much smaller vocabulary in these languages or simply due to the incompetent or error-prone translations.

So to summarize, it would be fair to say that you have culturally captured me :)

It's OK if you don't believe me, but there you have it anyway.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say anyone was being anti-semitic did I, let alone chatGPT? My point is that you can't play daft about why chatGPT is doing what it is doing. You can contextualize them as just simple facts all you want, but one is a tool used to spread hateful rhetoric about Jews without context.

Just because something can be used in an evil way does not make it untrue and it doesnt make it it inherently wrong to talk about. In fact, I hear anti white propoganda all the time, part of which is the fact that whites are overrepresented in finance. The hypocrisy is insane.

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Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all of your points are valid. But I still think we should make an effort and strive to solve these problems. I don't think this is being done with ChatGPT, for example. But also, note that an AI doesn't have to be in complete agreement with someone for that person to not feel "biased against". As long as an AI does make some effort to not be prejudiced/biased, that could work. For example, if someone asks: "i…

> I think all of your points are valid. But I still think we should make an effort and strive to solve these problems. I don't think this is being done with ChatGPT, for example. > But also, note that an AI doesn't have to be in complete agreement with someone for that person to not feel "biased against". > As long as an AI does make some effort to not be prejudiced/biased, that could work. > For example, if someone…

"Should it also answer the same way when asked if the earth is flat?"

Maybe, it's probably more useful to know that a) the earth isn't flat, but b) a non-negligible number of people think otherwise.

It's funny that people debate these but then at the same time want to pretend that the "AI" is "intelligent". What kind of intelligent person would have trouble navigating this?

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#435
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can say an AI trained using RLHF - such as ChatGPT is - is really "simply reflecting the data it was trained on". ChatGPT was first trained on a load of data, then it was updated to act in specific ways based on feedback from humans who "nudged" it the way they wanted it to go.

Are those humans that nudged it representative of the population? Or were they mostly "woke" Silicon Valley employees? (not to dismiss woke Silicon Valley employees, I'm just saying their opinions are not representative of the entire population).

Ah, yes, someone with blue hair. Of course. They are often, if not always, the culprit!

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also bias in the data itself . That's the difficult thing to avoid. Even down to how we phrase a question, who we collect the data from, it all introduces a bias unless we're literally harvesting all data from every human being and using that for our models. There's no way to get rid of the bias, even if we take out the nudges.

How about you select a representative (i.e. random and statistically significant) sample of the population and then ask them their opinions about certain (especially controversial) parts of your data, and then weigh your data according to these opinions? That's just an idea that occurred to me (in 30 seconds of thought) which could probably make the training data significantly more unbiased. But I'm sure there are re…

I'm not sure why you are conflating bias with the "the statistical likelihood that a belief is held by someone". They have nothing to do with each other.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#437
post #81

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And sometimes it just flat out refuses to write anything because it "isn't ethical" -- like a story about the creation of genetically engineered catgirls. Yes, I get that the actual creation of intelligent beings is an ethically dubious proposition and this has been covered in such works as Blade Runner , but it isn't unethical to write about it! And this is something that has been deliberately added recently -- in D…

I saw a post the other day where it wouldn't write a rap battle involving Genghis Khan because it would be disrespectful to him. We're still seeing results where ChatGPT will offer up jokes about men but any jokes about women are disrespectful.

>offer up jokes about men but any jokes about women are disrespectful.

The funny thing about this is that it supports the sexist anachronism that "women are emotionally sensitive and must be treated gently/with kid gloves".

I'm fortunate to know enough thick-skinned women to be able to readily confirm it is indeed an anachronism. Shame it's taken root in contemporary pop culture the way it has.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few percent of income tax versus quality of life? Quality of life will win out every time. (Furthermore, this meme that Republicans are financially beneficial is fallacious. The problem is that economic effects take a long time to become apparent, so the current guy gets blamed for the effects of the last guy)

Do the benefits you receive from Democrats holding power outweigh the increase in disposable income? I think if you ask different people you'll receive different answers because it ultimately comes down to how you value those benefits. If not, why would any intelligent person ever vote for a Republican?

As I started off saying, the Republican party has recently started having some very poor direct effects on everybody's lives, so the answer to that question has become yes.

My original comment wasn't as a blue partisan, but rather a leave-me-alone libertarian. In 2016, yes "both sides" just channel popular frustration into corporatist policies. Abstract abortion vs abstract guns kayfabe, but really centralization and corporate welfare uber alles. I was the one telling my blue tribe friends why Trump was going to win, while they didn't want to hear it. I had never voted for a major party candidate in any national race (until 2020).

But in 2023? The inmates have solidly taken over the Republican asylum, in a way that the extremist wackos in the blue tribe have not (yet?). The only intelligent reason I can see to support the insanity is that you want to see the system run aground and crash. This isn't meant as an indictment - 20 or even 10 years ago I would have been right there with you.

If you want to explain another intelligent reason to vote Republican, I'm all ears. I'd love to return to my prior state of understanding the merit in both tribes' points of view. Just please don't base it on opposing cherry picked blue tribe insanity that hasn't actually captured the Democratic party, or things that are still basically symmetrical (eg Biden's student loan giveaway vs Trump's Covid giveaway).

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something can be used in an evil way does not make it untrue and it doesnt make it it inherently wrong to talk about. In fact, I hear anti white propoganda all the time, part of which is the fact that whites are overrepresented in finance. The hypocrisy is insane.

[flagged]

I never said white people are favcing a prejudice equivalent to Jews. Thats obviously a stupid ass take to have.

Im just saying that it doesnt make sense that chatgpt would just refuse to tell the truth in this instance because that truth could be used as propoganda. And the same argument can be applied to its statements about white people but since white people are on easy street according to the political zeitgeist it will cough up facts about them all day long regardless of how those facts paint white people.

Which imo is good, a fact is a fact. Just saying the same thing should be true across all races if we want chatgpt to be a legitimately useful tool for anything other than propogandizing.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing the same bullshit chatgpt was doing. Its fine to say white people are overrepresented but for some reason its am antisemetic trope to say Jews are overrepresented in finance. Both statements are factual. No ones being antisemetic or anti white. Just stating facts.

I didn't say anyone was being anti-semitic did I, let alone chatGPT? My point is that you can't play daft about why chatGPT is doing what it is doing. You can contextualize them as just simple facts all you want, but one is a tool used to spread hateful rhetoric about Jews without context.

Actually yes you literally did in your original comment that I replied to.
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