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Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

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Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#81

Post by jabroni_salad »

I graduated in 09.

* It's easier to get a job if you already have a job. It's okay to take a shitty job as long as you don't get complacent about it.

* Gaps get stressed by job seekers in advice requests because it is a question that can make you look bad. However, if you are actually at an interview, they are fishing for bad dealbreakers not minor imperfections. Don't worry to much about it.

* If you get hired via a staffing agency, you could be cut at any time arbitrarily. I once got laid off 24 hours after signing a contract renewal. Keep as good an emergency fund as you can manage.

* Unemployment benefits are not charity, it is insurance that you pay for out of your wage. Dont let pride or shame convince you not to use it.

* Network aggressively and be likeable. You never know when that linkedin connection from a shit job 3 years ago will throw you a bone. I know everybody on HN really likes their leetcode but if you have an inside reference, the interview is reduced to just a vibe check.

* There are grades of recruiters and higher grade jobs tend to be assigned to higher grade recruiters. The guys sending you irrelevant callcenter gigs on the other side of the country can be ignored as they are just playing the numbers game too, but if a recruiter advertises something decent to you the least you should do is reply with a "not right now but thanks". This results in a higher quality recruiter keeping you in their rolodex for later.

* Hire a professional resume writer for you. This goes not just for noobs, but also people who have been at the same gig for awhile and have not been through the hiring game recently.

* Cold applications are just a numbers game. Managers get 1000 applications for 1 seat. Yes, tune your resume/letter for the job, but don't spend too much time on it.

* If you are offboarding, just plagiarize Nixon's resignation letter if you can't write anything nice at all. In a fiery departure, your best case scenario is that nothing happens and your worst case is that somebody who likes you will no longer want to be your reference or whatever. Your first one will always feel bad, but people coming and going is just part of life and doesnt have to be a big deal.

https://www.archives.gov/historical-docs/todays-doc/?dod-dat...

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#83

Post by dboreham »

scarface74 wrote: post #35
cratermoon wrote: post #25

Oh, new grads are golden, they have almost nothing worry about. The companies laying off workers are pushing out the senior, highly-paid, most expensive employees. They will quickly and eagerly replace with them with naive, low-paid (relatively), eager-to-drink-the-koolaid fresh grads. The only thing the new grads might have to worry about is that they probably won't get as much money as they would have prior to the…

If I’m trying to keep a company afloat, I would much rather have a few experienced engineers than a bunch of juniors that start off doing “negative work”

You're assuming the application of logic and critical thinking.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#84

Post by shagie »

keeptrying wrote: post #41

You need to be applying to 20 jobs a day. Pay for something that helps you mass apply - I think there are tools out there. Unfortunately I've forgotten their names. Put yourself in a strong situation - i.e. move back to your parents etc so money isn't a worry. I never went to Grad School but a lot of my friends went to Grad school.

When looking at resumes that have come through, it is really easy to identify the ones that came from a mass application vs. the ones where the person read the job description.

If there is limited time to review or interview candidates resulting in some not getting moved further along, one of the easy early filters is to not consider the ones that came in from a third party easy apply and don't match the format expected by the ATS (if they even got that far).

It is fine to use linked in, dice, Glassdoor and whatever else to discover companies that may have jobs listed. However preference should always be given to applying on the company page itself with a resume that indicates that you read the position requirements.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#85

Post by nemo44x »

time_to_smile wrote: post #70
nemo44x wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are nothing like that situation. This was a common problem in the .com bust days in that the money was often just being passed around. Double Click had a similar situation where they had a good business but many of their customers didn't. But they (and other solid business) did make it through the purge and went on to be big successes. Today we have an ecosystem that is far more diverse and what I'd call "real". Y…

> We are nothing like that situation Agreed because this time the asset bubble extends well beyond tech. This is a much larger problem and will take much longer to unwind, cutting much deeper than that.

I understand the sentiment and there's certainly a logical and valid case for it. But I disagree with it and here's why:

1) The secular trend in falling interest rates and "low" interest rates will continue longer term. Raising rates rapidly has been disruptive but it also gives some breathing room and the ability to slowly lower rates again, which will be needed to stimulate demand again. Lower interest rates obviously impact asset prices as borrowing becomes cheaper so you can borrow more.

2) 40-year fixed rate mortgages will be a think soon. This will increase many asset prices and allow people to continue to participate in buying real estate and generating wealth over time. This is a massive priority to the government because home owners are one of the most valuable things a government can have as they generate property taxes and give people skin in the game which means continued support of the regime. This impacts real estate assets because the monthly payment is lower which means you can pay more for things using cheaper money.

3) The rapid inflation we saw had nothing to do with low interest rates, at least not on their own. It was 100% because of the pandemic and how we reacted to it. Lots of liquid money was pumped into the system and this is the important part - it was liquid. Also, our entire supply line and logistics structure was optimized for a certain existence and the pandemic disrupted all of that. Suddenly money was being spent on different things and it has created all sort of supply and demand problems. This is beginning to smooth out and by 2025 I expect the effects of the pandemic on inflation will be gone. This means we can resume the secular trend of generally lowering interest rates long term.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#86

Post by liquid_stranger »

topkai22 wrote: post #31

As a new grad I don’t think you need to do much different. At my Megacorp the college hire budget is separate from everything else. Even during the strictest hiring freeze college hiring continued. I would advise shifting expectations a bit, it’s likely offers will still be good but not quite as lucrative as last year. As for accepting any job- just because you’ve accepted a job does not mean you can’t keep interview…

> Of the 20 people we had, 3 had new jobs within 3 months of hire.

I am coming up on month 3 of my new job and not liking the team and leadership. I can tell it will only get worse.

I really want to leave and luckily have the opportunity to close the loop on all my current projects.

Should I just make it quick and send an email to manager tomorrow that I feel it's not a good fit and Friday is my last day? Make it quick and easy before I get more assignments and waste more time.

I have no job lined up but 9 years of experience and at least a year in savings.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#88

Post by AnotherGoodName »

mooreds wrote: post #18

I like the advice here: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-softwar... (didn't write it, but it jives with my experience). I also wrote something here on how to stand out: https://letterstoanewdeveloper.com/2022/09/19/ways-to-stand-... Finally, you ask: > Is it better to get any job than keep searching for the job I'd be most suited for? That depends on your financial situation and emotional runway,…

I was recently asked "Is it better to get any job than keep searching for the job I'd be most suited for?" by a laid off Visa holder.

This is even more straightforward. Yes it is.

I know many who are being hit by layoffs. The situation sucks. I don't think there's any advantage to downplaying this right now whether in your own mind or through advice to others. There's a huge number of tech workers laid off simultaneously and very bluntly you should look for any job that supports your Visa as the priority.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#89

Post by fernandopj »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #81

I graduated in 09. * It's easier to get a job if you already have a job. It's okay to take a shitty job as long as you don't get complacent about it. * Gaps get stressed by job seekers in advice requests because it is a question that can make you look bad. However, if you are actually at an interview, they are fishing for bad dealbreakers not minor imperfections. Don't worry to much about it. * If you get hired via a…

> Network aggressively and be likeable. You never know when that linkedin connection from a shit job 3 years ago will throw you a bone. I know everybody on HN really likes their leetcode but if you have an inside reference, the interview is reduced to just a vibe check.

++1 this. Couldn't have said better myself. I went more than 10 years not having to apply anywhere, switching jobs just by referral - interviews felt like friendly meetings. Only broke that streak when interviewing for a job in another country.

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