Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 270 posts

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#51

Post by notch656c »

rqtwteye wrote: post #39
notch656c wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great recession grad. 1000:100:10:1 app:phone_screen:interview:offer In general divide the first number by 10 if you have at least 12 months post grad professional experience. If you have a shiny high GPA diploma from a top school but no intern or any experience whatsoever change last two numbers to zero.

In 2003 it went to 100:1:0:0 for me for more than a year. It was a rude awakening after thinking that I was a high demand pro during the .COM bubble. Definitely taught me to hold onto my money.

Yep. I'm a fucking miser. My entry into the work world was 10+% unemployment and brutal cut throat for minimum wage. The idea I'll be cut at any moment and be jobless for years is burned into my mind so money is guarded preciously.

Also I'll never forget just how rude and pretentious recruiters were during that time with their new found power. You see the true colors in such times.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#52

Post by alexpetralia »

mooreds wrote: post #18

I like the advice here: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-softwar... (didn't write it, but it jives with my experience). I also wrote something here on how to stand out: https://letterstoanewdeveloper.com/2022/09/19/ways-to-stand-... Finally, you ask: > Is it better to get any job than keep searching for the job I'd be most suited for? That depends on your financial situation and emotional runway,…

And perhaps, implicit in the above reply, write about what you have learned!

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#53

Post by adam_arthur »

spacemadness wrote: post #46

Do PhDs in AI really have much to fear? VC capital is flowing into AI. I’m no expert on the state of AI employment but if I was to pick a hot area that’s safe for now that would be my bet.

Curious on others perspective here.

Agreed AI will be the “hot” area going forward, but how are labor dynamics? e.g. supply of talent vs number of openings

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#54

Post by gamesbrainiac »

I know that there are loads of people giving advice here that haven't been in a situation where they had almost no options when it came to getting a job when they graduated. I have been in a similar situation to you, and here are some of the things that I'd advise you to do.

1. Minimise your costs. If you can live with your relatives, do so.

2. If you cannot find a job, work on an open source project that is close to a field that you are interested in. Make sure that you do not have gaps in your resume that you cannot explain. This also allows you to keep your skills fresh and purpose to your day.

3. Invest in finishing the blind 75. These are set of interview questions that if you can understand, and master, you will be able to ace pretty much any technical interview.

4. Make sure you also are prepared for system design questions. There are many books on the matter. Although SDIs can be quite subjective, it is good to have an understanding of what you can do.

5. Do not limit yourself to your town/city/area. Apply for any and all remote jobs that apply to you.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#55

Post by kaycebasques »

I graduated in 2011. IIRC it was a somewhat tough market but also I had not focused enough throughout college on building employable skills. I had studied history. The age-old vicious cycle I encountered was that you need experience to get a job, but it seemed like you needed a job to get experience. I found a loophole by taking technical writing contracts to build my experience and portfolio. At first they were very small and I worked for nothing and asked the clients to take a shot on me because I am very hungry to succeed. After a year of that a family friend got my foot in the door at the startup he worked at. The connection got my foot in the door but the skill-building and portfolio-building I had been doing over the last year sealed the deal. I mention this not to massage my ego but to suggest that they're both important so your best bet is to spend proper time/energy on both. Also during my year of contracts I took a lot of CS classes at community college. After 3 years at the startup Google poached me and I'm now going on 7 years at Goog.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#56

Post by Scubabear68 »

mooreds wrote: post #18

I like the advice here: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-softwar... (didn't write it, but it jives with my experience). I also wrote something here on how to stand out: https://letterstoanewdeveloper.com/2022/09/19/ways-to-stand-... Finally, you ask: > Is it better to get any job than keep searching for the job I'd be most suited for? That depends on your financial situation and emotional runway,…

Good advice from the pragmatic engineer article. Particularly the advice to "aim wide". It is so tempting to put all your effort into that one perfect job. But in down times, you want a steady paycheck and to start getting practical experience under your belt.

The only thing I would add is to always try to shoot for a company where technology is seen as an asset and not just a cost center. Traditionally, that was software companies and places like Wall Street. Now that net is wider, but beware jobs with titles like "Programmer II" or "Programmer/Analyst", indicators of companies where IT is a cost center and you get stuck as a minor cog in a minor wheel.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#57

Post by jedberg »

My advice to an undergrad is: Go to grad school. Now is the perfect time to apply, and generally CS/EE students get paid to attend by having their tuition paid for by their advisor and getting a stipend for research/TA jobs. There is also government money to be had. Ride out the storm in Grad school, gain some skills, and expand your network. When you finish the economy should be good again.

If you're a grad student, maybe try to get a post-doc?

But assuming more academia is not for you, look for jobs outside of tech companies. Like apply for a job building the McDonalds app or writing software for John Deere tractors. The job probably won't be great, but you might get lucky and find a company that has realized that tech is the future and are investing in it (I recently met some guys from Ford who were doing some crazy cool stuff).

If you want to try to find which non-tech companies are embracing and investing in tech, look for old companies that have been featured in keynotes at re:invent or Google Cloud Next.

And of course use your network. Find friends who did get jobs and ask them if there are any more. While there are general hiring freezes, some companies will open up a few jobs to counteract attrition, and some will exempt new college grads from their freezes (because you guys are cheap and eager to learn their way of doing things without preconceived notions).

Good luck, and try not to get too down if you get ignored or rejected a lot -- it will happen to the best of people!

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#58

Post by hijinks »

I entered the job market right after the dotcom crash. It was A LOT worse then.

My advice is learn to interview. What I mean by that is if you don't know something don't just say. No sure. Ask if you can try to walk your way through it with the person and if you get stuck or don't know something ask the interviewer for help. What that shows is you want to learn

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#59

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

mooreds wrote: post #18

I like the advice here: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-softwar... (didn't write it, but it jives with my experience). I also wrote something here on how to stand out: https://letterstoanewdeveloper.com/2022/09/19/ways-to-stand-... Finally, you ask: > Is it better to get any job than keep searching for the job I'd be most suited for? That depends on your financial situation and emotional runway,…

That is excellent advice, and not one single hint of jargon!

Practicality, in my experience, has always been of tremendous importance.

Also, for me, I tended to take low-paying jobs, if the technology/company interested me, because I wanted to learn.

Learning is difficult; especially learning to ship. Feasts of Humble Pie, Egg-On-Face, and Crow, with side orders of stress and overwork. A surprising number of folks don't actually want to do it.

In my experience, it has always been worth it; even the "negative learning" experiences.

Re: Ask HN: With recent layoffs, how would you advise new grads entering the market?

#60

Post by the_snooze »

Use every "unfair advantage" you have. I graduated during the height of the Great Recession, and I weathered it using the fact that I was already involved in undergraduate research and that I'm a US citizen.

My research supervisor had funding for someone who can work on ITAR-restricted projects, and I was the perfect fit for that. I made money earning my graduate degree. Afterwards, I used my research experience and connections to land a full-time job at an FFRDC [1], which only hires US citizens. I learned a lot from my group there, and it set me up for even more future opportunities. Those "unfair advantages" made life much easier for me during a tough market.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federally_funded_research_and_...

Post reply on HN