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I Am the Ghost Here

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Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#61

Post by brazzy »

moloch-hai wrote: post #36
pjbeam wrote: post #27

Honest question--is Michelle a real person the author is recounting events about or is this some kind of literary device? Maybe my brain isn't working today but I gave up halfway through this without getting it.

The reasonable interpretation at first is that Michelle is trans Jeff, post-transition. But then it goes off the rails. We quickly learn Michelle is somebody entirely other, whom we learn practically nothing about despite that she authored an extremely likeable Jeff. We learn that the other, peevish, Jeff is just Jeff from before college, before he was scripted up. We also learn practically nothing about him. The onl…

It is a possible interpretation, but certainly not the reasonable one.

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#62

Post by Werewolf255 »

Since we're all chiming in here, I thought the story was about coping with pressures and life, and uses the puppeteer as a stand-in for multiple, nebulous "whats" or "whos".

I think most of us can relate to somebody in our life who leaves either for school, or work, or for some reason is out of our lives for an extended period. I think it's also reasonably common when those same people come back and are changed, for lack of a better phrase. It may be that you, the reader, are that person who came back changed.

For whatever reason, the person is now different in a positive, or at least socially-acceptable, way; however, the other shoe is bound to drop. In this case, it was Michelle and the concept in their world of Puppets and Puppeteers.

But really, you can insert anything you want into Michelle's spot. Drugs, relationships, and religion are often the most common factors in these stories. Just as common is loss of one of those three (parent passes, kicked the meth habit, etc). It can also be something like an aggressive alternative medicine group with strong pressure to conform to the in-group. It could also be something more openly malicious, such as getting into a racial superiority group, a cult, or a conspiracy theory group.

In the end, it is something, or someone, or some group, that allows the changed person to be themselves, or express some other part or their personality. It may even be that this is a change the person wanted, such as being less violent or having more patience.

It also brings up an interesting question, in this framing. How are the outcomes different between using mind altering drugs, joining a cult, and letting a manipulative person guide ones actions? One could argue intent, where manipulation is putting the person in a place to go back to the manipulator, but one could argue the same about drugs, or the alt-medicine group, or any of the other types of things listed above.

When it's all said and done, I thought it was about how people outside of the changed person react to learning about the source of the change. Sometimes it's a positive reaction, but sometimes all anyone wants is the status quo.

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#63

Post by moloch-hai »

brazzy wrote: post #61
moloch-hai wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasonable interpretation at first is that Michelle is trans Jeff, post-transition. But then it goes off the rails. We quickly learn Michelle is somebody entirely other, whom we learn practically nothing about despite that she authored an extremely likeable Jeff. We learn that the other, peevish, Jeff is just Jeff from before college, before he was scripted up. We also learn practically nothing about him. The onl…

It is a possible interpretation, but certainly not the reasonable one.

It is reasonable in that a plausible story would follow, instead of a fantasy.

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#64

Post by brazzy »

moloch-hai wrote: post #63
brazzy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a possible interpretation, but certainly not the reasonable one.

It is reasonable in that a plausible story would follow, instead of a fantasy.

My point was that other interpretations result in an equally, if not more plausible story.

Additionally, I'd say that none of them result in a fully plausible story, and that the author wrote it like that intentionally.

And I vastly prefer it that way to a pure allegory, which to me too often seems like a dishonest way to make an argument.

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#65

Post by [deleted] »

phibz wrote: post #35
zelon88 wrote: post #32

To me this seems to be a story of addiction. The "three" people that are "Jeff" include 1) the actual Jeff, a shy introvert with way too much on his plate, 2) an intoxicated Jeff that is outgoing and highly functional, 3) a Jeff that is unrecognizably intoxicated (Michelle). The part where I have a hard time reconciling the story is towards the end; > I tell her it’s likely not that and then call Michelle. It isn’t d…

I agree. This is definitely about addiction and its bedfellow codependence. I read the writing style as bizzaro, perhaps to soften difficult topics and to add intrigue. So to that end Michelle isn't actually puppeting Jeff. She's just a controlling girlfriend.

[deleted]

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#66

Post by wizzwizz4 »

brazzy wrote: post #64
moloch-hai wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is reasonable in that a plausible story would follow, instead of a fantasy.

My point was that other interpretations result in an equally, if not more plausible story. Additionally, I'd say that none of them result in a fully plausible story, and that the author wrote it like that intentionally. And I vastly prefer it that way to a pure allegory, which to me too often seems like a dishonest way to make an argument.

The best allegories are the ones that go completely off the rails, and only make the author's original point if you squint. (Even better if they're still good allegories, but for things their authors didn't know about.)

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#67

Post by kelseyfrog »

Since there's obviously different interpretations, and most of the fun of the story is sharing them, I read parts of it as a plurality and fronting story.

The social pressure to not talk about plurality, and the pushback folks get when sharing their identity with people close to them[family] resemble the interactions the main character has with others. Questions of "who are they really?" and "who am I talking with right now?" present themselves in the story and I'd imagine in systems that don't have the best supportive environment.

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#68

Post by Dylan16807 »

foobarbecue wrote: post #60
Communitivity wrote: post #50

Interesting read, but did not understand the author's message or what was going on. Was it about addiction, MPD, trans discovery? Unclear, to me at least. Poor writing I think, unless the ambiguity was the intent.

It's very intentional. Great writing leaves gaps for the reader to fill with elements and interpretations from their own life. This comment thread makes it clear it worked -- amphetamine users see it as a story about amphetamines. People who care about gender thought it was a gender story. People with social anxiety see it as a story about masking. I watch and read too much sci-fi so interpreted it more literally, th…

> This comment thread makes it clear it worked -- amphetamine users see it as a story about amphetamines. People who care about gender thought it was a gender story. People with social anxiety see it as a story about masking.

You're making a lot of assumptions there. Just because people make a guess doesn't mean that guess is based on their own life.

And reaching as far as you need to find an interpretation is also something that happens with bad writing all the time.

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#69

Post by Dylan16807 »

dreadlordbone wrote: post #7
pmarreck wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you slightly break it down for those of us with sleep deprivation from mini-me's in the home?

Here's ChatGPT answering what the word "puppeteer" means in this article: The metaphor of the "puppeteer" in the story could be interpreted in a variety of ways. The author doesn't explicitly state what the puppeteer represents, but given the context of the story and the themes it explores, there are a few possibilities. One interpretation is that the puppeteer represents societal and cultural expectations that dicta…

Why did this comment get flagged? It's great.

Re: I Am the Ghost Here

#70

Post by Dylan16807 »

nickpeterson wrote: post #33
Waterluvian wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother-in-law has ranted many times about how they don’t teach cursive anymore. She doesn’t know how to use a computer. I think you raise a very interesting (and likely very controversial) thought to explore. My quick opinion is that we can only teach so much. And the list of things that could be taught is forever growing. We need to be pragmatic about priority.

I just hate we optimize putting info into computer (typing vs cursive), but now computers can just read writing, so why are we so focused on typing? Just make computers adapt to humans, not train humans to accommodate machines.

Why do you think typewriters exist?

Print and cursive are about the same amount of effort, and that amount is a lot more than hitting keys. The average person can type 40 words per minute, or handwrite 40 letters per minute.

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