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My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

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Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#221

Post by krapp »

shkkmo wrote: post #201
phpisthebest wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hmmm... Following the Constitution is Radical now... The US Navy is the only constitutional branch of the DoD. How is that for being radical.

Yes, advocating such widespread changes to society on the basis of a specific interpretation/understanding of the constitution (the root document of our government) fits the meanings of the word almost too perfectly: > Arising from or going to a root or source; basic. >Departing markedly from the usual or customary; extreme or drastic. > Relating to or advocating fundamental or revolutionary changes in current practi…

If we have to put up with mass shootings and forcing women to choose between unwanted pregnancies and prison because of specific interpretations of the Constitution based solely on 18th century idioms, then we should go all in.

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#222

Post by judge2020 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #220
judge2020 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they had to defend against threats from the air or space when they drafted the constitution. Nor were spies all that useful outside of wartime.

This "well it is old document" falls on deaf ears with me. The solution on if parts of the constitution are out-dated is to pass amendments to the consititon, which has been done 27 times in our history. It seems today however we have allowed the federal government to simply ignore it because it is "too hard" to pass an amendment. Sorry if it important enough to expand the power of the federal government is should be…

Where are they even overstepping? They don't get involved in situations outside of their power, like defending the country and regulating interstate commerce.

What you're not seeing with your point is that the federal government actually hasn't really expanded their power, it's just that more and more things have been "capitalism-ified" to where doing business purely within one state is uneconomical. More and more of society has transition to conducting business over state and national lines, and thus the federal government is governing more of the everyday person's life than they were 100 years ago.

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#223

Post by prottog »

judge2020 wrote: post #222
phpisthebest wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "well it is old document" falls on deaf ears with me. The solution on if parts of the constitution are out-dated is to pass amendments to the consititon, which has been done 27 times in our history. It seems today however we have allowed the federal government to simply ignore it because it is "too hard" to pass an amendment. Sorry if it important enough to expand the power of the federal government is should be…

Where are they even overstepping? They don't get involved in situations outside of their power, like defending the country and regulating interstate commerce. What you're not seeing with your point is that the federal government actually hasn't really expanded their power, it's just that more and more things have been "capitalism-ified" to where doing business purely within one state is uneconomical. More and more of…

> regulating interstate commerce

The same Interstate Commerce Clause that in Wickard v. Filburn the federal judiciary interpreted as giving the federal legislature the authority to regulate intrastate non-commerce; and in turn relied upon in Gonzales v. Raich that the federal government has the authority to regulate the growing and use of cannabis for medical purposes by one man acting within one state and according to that state's laws for his own person.

> More and more of society has transition to conducting business over state and national lines

This is true, but the above examples show that the federal government is intruding in people's personal actions with no commercial purpose that stays confined to one state, on the basis that those actions might exert a force, however minute, on interstate commerce. The federal government may as well say that they can regulate everyone since people breathe air which crosses state lines and therefore is under federal jurisdiction.

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#224

Post by TheRealPomax »

mschuster91 wrote: post #167
TheRealPomax wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a problem with a different solution, though. Loads of people in other countries issue the same threats, but because they don't readily have access to ranged weapons, and specifically firearms (and every legal firearm that they do have are registered with the police), those threats are just that: threats. Of course, we know the problem there, and everyone knows the solution, and everyone knows that solution can…

> Loads of people in other countries issue the same threats, but because they don't readily have access to ranged weapons, and specifically firearms (and every legal firearm that they do have are registered with the police), those threats are just that: threats. All my examples were from Germany, a country with very strict gun control. And yet, Drachenlord got haters literally every single day shouting at or vandaliz…

> That's pure victim blaming with a healthy dose of "chilling effect" applied and I'm sad to see such a take on this site. Speaking the truth, advocating for democracy must be protected at all costs.

quite the overreach: by all means, have your opinions and spout them, and by all means, request local police protection because that's what police is for, but if you're so divisive that need the US Secret Service to protect you: maybe you don't. There are very few people who should qualify for that.

Don't pretend I'm saying no one deserves protection, I'm saying almost no one deserves USSS protection.

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#225

Post by phpisthebest »

judge2020 wrote: post #222
phpisthebest wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "well it is old document" falls on deaf ears with me. The solution on if parts of the constitution are out-dated is to pass amendments to the consititon, which has been done 27 times in our history. It seems today however we have allowed the federal government to simply ignore it because it is "too hard" to pass an amendment. Sorry if it important enough to expand the power of the federal government is should be…

Where are they even overstepping? They don't get involved in situations outside of their power, like defending the country and regulating interstate commerce. What you're not seeing with your point is that the federal government actually hasn't really expanded their power, it's just that more and more things have been "capitalism-ified" to where doing business purely within one state is uneconomical. More and more of…

>>federal government actually hasn't really expanded their power

You have to be kidding me. I did not think anyone would honestly make that case. Many argue about how the federal government needed to expand their power but I have never seen anyone claim they have not expanded their power at all

That is new one for me, and not supported at all by the historical record, which for example was clear there needed to be a amendment passed to ban alcohol but then magically due to some very bad court rulings (like wickard) they could ban whole classes of drugs without a constitutional amendment

History is VERY, VERY clear that FDR massively expanded the size, and scope of government and held the supreme court hostage forcing them rule his way after striking down many of his laws originally as unconstitutional

No one that has studied American History can say with the strait face the Federal Government has not expanded its powers

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#226

Post by mschuster91 »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #224
mschuster91 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Loads of people in other countries issue the same threats, but because they don't readily have access to ranged weapons, and specifically firearms (and every legal firearm that they do have are registered with the police), those threats are just that: threats. All my examples were from Germany, a country with very strict gun control. And yet, Drachenlord got haters literally every single day shouting at or vandaliz…

> That's pure victim blaming with a healthy dose of "chilling effect" applied and I'm sad to see such a take on this site. Speaking the truth, advocating for democracy must be protected at all costs. quite the overreach: by all means, have your opinions and spout them, and by all means, request local police protection because that's what police is for, but if you're so divisive that need the US Secret Service to prot…

> and by all means, request local police protection because that's what police is for

Local police in the US has been shown often enough to seriously lack training: 21 weeks on average [1] - that is ridiculous, even traffic cops in Germany have to pass through literally two and a half year of training, and another four years and a strict physical training regime for the high rank allowing them into personal protection details. Not to mention many police departments are already overwhelmed with responsibilities, have massive cultural problems on their own, or actually are underfunded - while ridiculous budgets like NYPD are so widely known they're almost a meme, many smaller PDs (and, associated, fire departments and EMTs) seriously struggle with funding to keep the lights on. Adding the workload required to provide somewhat decent amount of protection for exposed persons would completely bust a lot of them.

> There are very few people who should qualify for that.

IMO, the list is orders of magnitude longer - Members of Congress, members of the government, their publicly known top staff, leaders and deputy leaders of government agencies, on state level at least the governors and their cabinet, and the heads of major parties as well. That's for the US a couple thousand people, protection details shouldn't be that expensive given how large the US federal budget already is. Recent events, not just the events surrounding Jan 6th, but also all the other threats that have happened over the last years (and yes, I include the shooting of Republican Steve Scalise here), warrant it IMO to make sure at least the representatives and the most important people in government get the very best protection there is, independent of the country.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#227

Post by boringg »

alistairSH wrote: post #189
boringg wrote: post #36

I feel like there has to be a lot of stories similar to this where people got really close to getting shot down. Rare but not completely uncommon .. or is this truly a unique story?

It’s a normal, but infrequent, occurrence in locations where POTUS or other VIPs are frequently located. DC has permanent restrictions. Camp David temporary restrictions when POTUS is in residence. Restrictions are also placed around major sporting events (Super Bowl), though I’m not sure if those are for fear of somebody dive bombing the stadium or for the other reasons (events often have military fly-bys, parachute…

I have to think that the F-16 flying by the civilian - the pilot is probably having a relatively enjoyable time (as soon as they know it isn't a threat). It's like rolling up beside a toyata camry with a bugatti veyron (insert your choice super car).

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#228

Post by alistairSH »

boringg wrote: post #227
alistairSH wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a normal, but infrequent, occurrence in locations where POTUS or other VIPs are frequently located. DC has permanent restrictions. Camp David temporary restrictions when POTUS is in residence. Restrictions are also placed around major sporting events (Super Bowl), though I’m not sure if those are for fear of somebody dive bombing the stadium or for the other reasons (events often have military fly-bys, parachute…

I have to think that the F-16 flying by the civilian - the pilot is probably having a relatively enjoyable time (as soon as they know it isn't a threat). It's like rolling up beside a toyata camry with a bugatti veyron (insert your choice super car).

Not even close. The last thing a civilian pilot wants is an F-16 rolling up. If that happens, there will almost certainly be a LEO waiting at the nearest airstrip waiting to debrief them. And likely a suspension of their license. Many times worse than the “I have a phone number for you to call” you get from ATC after a “normal” screw up.
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