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In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

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Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#181

Post by greggman3 »

deskamess wrote: post #42

Pretty much most senior level/grad algorithm classes are like this. They introduce a framework for solution and then give you about 2-3 example lecture problems that they walk you through. 2-3 weeks after being introduced to 5/6 frameworks its Exam day. You are given unique word problems that, in the eyes of someone experienced like a prof or PhD student, is trivial. But you are struggling with 1 week of homework exp…

I forgot where I heard this but "It's impossible to remember what it was like not to know something". This generally means all kinds of things are obvious to someone that knows a topic. They're so obvious they're invisible, forgotten about, and therefore you don't even think to teach them.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#182

Post by poulpy123 »

WalterBright wrote: post #91
haswell wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you observe other students putting similar amounts of effort, but obtaining much better results, understanding things more quickly and getting better ideas, you should probably just drop out I'm sorry, but even if this is true under some circumstances, this seems like terrible general advice, and only matters if your only goal is to reach the top echelons of your field. That doesn't mean there is no room for "a…

My career advice is usually: 1. draw a circle around the things you enjoy doing 2. draw a circle around the things that pay well 3. draw a circle around the things you're good at The intersection is your best career path. I tried to be a musician. Epic failure. I tried sports. Catastrophic failure. I tried sales. Monumental failure. Persisting in those endeavors as a career is akin to beating my head on a rock. Peopl…

unfortunately for me that's an empty set

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#183

Post by KMnO4 »

deskamess wrote: post #42

Pretty much most senior level/grad algorithm classes are like this. They introduce a framework for solution and then give you about 2-3 example lecture problems that they walk you through. 2-3 weeks after being introduced to 5/6 frameworks its Exam day. You are given unique word problems that, in the eyes of someone experienced like a prof or PhD student, is trivial. But you are struggling with 1 week of homework exp…

I found a lot of things needed time to sink in. I would struggle to wrap my head around the exam content and stress myself out. Then the class would finish and I wouldn’t see the content for another semester, where I’d either be helping another student study or it would come up in a related course.

Suddenly, my brain would just “get” it and I’d know exactly how to start.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#184

Post by poulpy123 »

Galanwe wrote: post #107
xyzzyz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there are smart people who get all this stuff "easily" (previous practice, exposure). Or, simply by virtue of being more intelligent. Life is not fair, and some people do have it easier than others, without having to pay for it with extra study time. If you are pursuing a research career, and you observe other students putting similar amounts of effort, but obtaining much better results, understanding things mo…

> Or, simply by virtue of being more intelligent. Life is not fair, and some people do have it easier than others I'm really not convinced this is the case when reaching higher level education. My experience is that "being smart" is an advantage for the first years - say up to bachelor - at which point there is no magic: if you don't work, you won't get your exams. This is in part because most exams will test not onl…

Actually you can find people that are really "smarter" that others, who get things noticeably quicker, even in research. Although as you note, being smarter isn't enough at university level.

But in any case they are a too small sample to make the modern science work, and most of the scientists are, well, average people maybe "smarter" than the average people but not by very much. What makes the difference is interest, motivation and opportunities.

And I say that as a former scientist that decided he wasn't smart (and interested) enough but who met many non-scientist smart people in his life

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#185

Post by deskamess »

krageon wrote: post #152
deskamess wrote: post #42

Pretty much most senior level/grad algorithm classes are like this. They introduce a framework for solution and then give you about 2-3 example lecture problems that they walk you through. 2-3 weeks after being introduced to 5/6 frameworks its Exam day. You are given unique word problems that, in the eyes of someone experienced like a prof or PhD student, is trivial. But you are struggling with 1 week of homework exp…

This matches my experience of an IT education in university perfectly. 90% of my class just didn't get it at all and the remaining 10% had a lot of experience in the field already (there were a small amount of extremely smart folks as well of course - they needed no background). Kind of defeats the purpose of teaching, but it does serve to weed out the folks that can't pick things up very fast. I think that is one of…

> but it does serve to weed out the folks that can't pick things up very fast.

I do not believe that is a desired goal or outcome. Why eliminate people who learn thoroughly but slowly?

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#186

Post by treeman79 »

marmetio wrote: post #46
deskamess wrote: post #42

Pretty much most senior level/grad algorithm classes are like this. They introduce a framework for solution and then give you about 2-3 example lecture problems that they walk you through. 2-3 weeks after being introduced to 5/6 frameworks its Exam day. You are given unique word problems that, in the eyes of someone experienced like a prof or PhD student, is trivial. But you are struggling with 1 week of homework exp…

This is a problem all across engineering. Professors and textbook authors are so concerned about reserving problems to grade you on that they forget to teach the material in the first place. Imagine trying to learn a spoken language with very little input or speaking practice.

Took an art class for fun. Been a programmer for 20 years.

Final exam the instructor put a bunch of glass vases up for us draw.

We had never covered glass or anything transparent. Teacher was quite surprised when this was pointed out after everyone struggled for 3 hours.

She was generous on grade.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#187

Post by deskamess »

opportune wrote: post #128
deskamess wrote: post #42

Pretty much most senior level/grad algorithm classes are like this. They introduce a framework for solution and then give you about 2-3 example lecture problems that they walk you through. 2-3 weeks after being introduced to 5/6 frameworks its Exam day. You are given unique word problems that, in the eyes of someone experienced like a prof or PhD student, is trivial. But you are struggling with 1 week of homework exp…

I did well in Algorithms courses (I took 4-5 and TA’d the intro class). I also studied math on top of CS. Imo a lot of the problem that CS students face in algorithms is due to not having a mathematical background. Even though you are introduced to concepts like invariants, induction, and propositional logic in a discrete math class, IMO it takes more exposure and practice to get to the point where these concepts get…

> strategies you know well enough that you can ask yourself if X data structure or Y pattern is appropriate for the task. IME this is often not suggested for people studying Algorithms but it should be. Even if you don’t fully get a problem, you can probably get most of the way by identifying the general approach you should use.

My experience exactly when taking such a course. This type of knowledge would have improved the QoL quite a bit.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#188

Post by imtringued »

xyzzyz wrote: post #63
deskamess wrote: post #42

Pretty much most senior level/grad algorithm classes are like this. They introduce a framework for solution and then give you about 2-3 example lecture problems that they walk you through. 2-3 weeks after being introduced to 5/6 frameworks its Exam day. You are given unique word problems that, in the eyes of someone experienced like a prof or PhD student, is trivial. But you are struggling with 1 week of homework exp…

> But there are smart people who get all this stuff "easily" (previous practice, exposure). Or, simply by virtue of being more intelligent. Life is not fair, and some people do have it easier than others, without having to pay for it with extra study time. If you are pursuing a research career, and you observe other students putting similar amounts of effort, but obtaining much better results, understanding things mo…

You know it is completely normal to not know things?

According to you we should just let old people do everything because they got to spend more time on this planet and never let inexperienced young people do anything even if that means they never gain experience.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#189

Post by lll-o-lll »

krageon wrote: post #162
winReInstall wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we have machines for that? Data access and repetition in itself is worthless. Refinement, and gaining new data from old recipes is the actual value. Why construct a machine, that basically selects for the wrong value, creating a reproduction academia, instead of a innovation academia. Why weed out what was your original value proposition? It seems very strange.

Absorbing and applying knowledge fast is a requirement for surviving in academia. Having classes that weed people out is not a bad thing. That's what I was saying - I don't see how this is pure reproduction, this is novel application of existing ideas. That's how innovation can start.

Nah, I don’t buy this at all.

I’ve never been a fast knowledge absorber, but that just meant I required a bit more time on my own, struggling with the content. Still managed to get max grades at undergrad university (didn’t go further because, well money). Also never stopped me from excelling in all work positions so far in life. If anything, a bit of struggle helps you go deep, and deep is much more valuable than fast but shallow (in my opinion).

Not professional advice, YMMV etc.

Re: In the past, I've had students call my problem sets “emotionally trying”

#190

Post by imtringued »

ilyt wrote: post #179
krageon wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every child knows what things they like and are good at. It might not map exactly to a career path but it's not like career skills live in some sort of magical vacuum that you can never see until you try them.

The problem starts when things you enjoy/do well don't fall into "pay well"

They don't pay well because everyone else enjoys them too.
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