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Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

reuters.com

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Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#361

Post by Aperocky »

gota wrote: post #144
estebank wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would be safest to do it in three smaller 5% waves rather than one fell swoop This disregards the effect of repeated layoffs on the morale and mental health of human beings, which affects how "the system" settles and recovers.

Part of the second and third wave can take the form of a hiring freeze or slowdown. People who quit are not replaced and soon you have a 5% reduction in headcount

Only the best (or the dauntless, but they are a minority) quit in the present climate, soon the corporation will have a 3-5% reduction in their best performers.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#362

Post by UncleOxidant »

mgkimsal wrote: post #34

11,000 people - let's say an average loaded cost of $250k/yr. That's... ~$3b/yr these folks cost MSFT. Granted, it's per year, but ... keeping these people on for another 3 years would cost ~$10b. MSFT currently have $100b cash on hand. It's gotta be a little... frustrating to get be part of a 5% cut when there's so much free cash sitting around. I know, it's a narrow view of corporate finance, and I don't have the '…

MSFT seems to be willing to invest $10B in OpenAI. It's not clear how they'll make that money back as OpenAI hasn't done much to monetize things like chatGPT.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#364

Post by dr_faustus »

Not to offend anyone affected, but considering the cost/profit structure of those big companies has not really changed that much (except, maybe, Meta), I get the feeling, that this round of layoffs is in some ways welcomed by those companies.

In many cases, they are basically returning to pre-pandemic levels and instead of an actual financial need, these layoffs are probably a result of the fact that you cannot effectively incorporate an headcount increase of 20% in a high-tech company within 1-2 years. It seems like they hired to please investors because everyone else was also hiring like mad. Since the shareholder expectations have reversed, the companies are using the "opportunity" to return to manageable numbers of engineers and administrators.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#365

Post by marcosdumay »

akira2501 wrote: post #239
endsync wrote: post #78

Bloat is real, but there's another labor market dynamic in play here. There was a huge run-up in corporate employee compensation in the tech sector over the last few years. (Some called it a "shortage," remember. Some of it is genuine growth in the sector, some of it was definitely "labor hoarding" by large companies that could afford to carry excess staff in a tight market as a hedge against being unable to fill cri…

You're describing a monopolized labor market. Sure, there may not be felonious collusion, but many of the illegal elements of a monopoly are very much present.. as you essentially point out. I'm also not sure why you would be surprised to learn there is collusion, the size and timing of these blocks are certainly curious, and I think further investigation would reveal quite a bit more than you're imagining here. I al…

> the size and timing of these blocks are certainly curious

The timing of the layoffs was exactly "as soon as all investors decided to stop their long-term deals". It's really not an evidence of collusion, except maybe of the investors. (But they too had an explanation.)

People are confused here because MS doesn't care about investors timing, but they had a clear trend to jump into.

That said, other evidence may be more revealing. This is strictly about timing.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#366

Post by ROTMetro »

Member when Carly Fiorina shut down HPs calculator division because it wasn't PROFITABLE enough? Pepperidge Farms remembers. It's not enough you make a company profit, it depends on the quality of that profit to the stock to determine if you are worth keeping around. There are some seriously broken things about that and about our modern economy.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#367

Post by heleninboodler »

arwineap wrote: post #109
jimbok wrote: post #80

Just last week MSFT nixed the accrual PTO benefit employees enjoyed and opted for the rouse of 'unlimited' PTO. Effectively, ending a liability/cash outlay they would pay when folks quit, or get fired. I hope those who were affected today receive severance that makes up for them losing this benefit. -James

My understanding is that the way they converted to unlimited PTO was by paying out people's vacation time with a one time payout. In which case, they didn't lose benefit at all

When my company switched from accrued to unlimited PTO, the way they did it was to tell everyone that until their balance got down to zero, they needed to report their time off. So if you quit before you got your balance down to zero, you had it paid out, but most people probably just burned through their balance within a year or so and the liability was gone.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#368

Post by serf »

citrus1330 wrote: post #314
throwawaysleep wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get my paycheque for showing up. For dedicated work rather than mediocrity, I need extra.

It doesn't cost you anything to do your best work

that's absolutely un-true in nearly every field, even CS ones.

I don't even get the premise.

Your best effort doesn't require more .... effort ?

What kind of work is it that you do? I'd love to join.

If sitting around idly at low-paying jobs watching paint dry wasn't an easier way to achieve a paycheck than the hard work that the employer would prefer you to do then it wouldn't be the world's most common trope.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#369

Post by MikeTheGreat »

kika wrote: post #358
akira2501 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing a monopolized labor market. Sure, there may not be felonious collusion, but many of the illegal elements of a monopoly are very much present.. as you essentially point out. I'm also not sure why you would be surprised to learn there is collusion, the size and timing of these blocks are certainly curious, and I think further investigation would reveal quite a bit more than you're imagining here. I al…

The war on wages is being waged (? is that the same word?) by the Fed. Companies just follow.

It is the same spelling of the word, but the first is a noun and the second is a verb. Yay for homonyms :)

If you want to avoid repeating that word you could go with

"The ware on wages is being conducted by..."

I'm sure there's other, equally good ways to phrase this, too.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#370

Post by marcosdumay »

gota wrote: post #144
estebank wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would be safest to do it in three smaller 5% waves rather than one fell swoop This disregards the effect of repeated layoffs on the morale and mental health of human beings, which affects how "the system" settles and recovers.

Part of the second and third wave can take the form of a hiring freeze or slowdown. People who quit are not replaced and soon you have a 5% reduction in headcount

So you further evaporate the Dead Sea?

How many competent people do you expect to stay until the end?

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