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Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

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Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#111

Post by fidgewidge »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #61
unethical_ban wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do 70,000,000 people vote (R) every year, knowing that the other 70,000,000 (D) think they are "unethical"? Why do people vote if they have different values? What kind of question is that?

What is it about our current American society that leads to basically a 50-50 split in registered voters? Why aren't (R)s able to see and respect (and convert) to values of (D) (or vice versa?) Why are people so stuck in their ways? Why does it feel the conversion rate for convincing people to "change their values" or "see things differently" is basically 0? Do we have any stats on whether we really are in one of the…

> Why does it feel the conversion rate for convincing people to "change their values" or "see things differently" is basically 0?

Because it happens slowly so it's hard to spot. But there are lots of cases where this does happen, albeit almost always people moving from left to right.

Recent case in point: Elon Musk. Now a hated figure by the left, only a few years ago he was firmly in the OpenAI style left-liberal camp (utopian tech, climate change, solutions-over-tradeoffs etc). He's now firmly on the right and sticking up for classical western values like freedom of speech, freedom of association and so on.

If you asked him he'd say he hasn't changed, the values of the left have changed. To what extent that's the case is left as an exercise for the reader.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#112

Post by genderwhy »

Kranar wrote: post #103
genderwhy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the general claim is that multiplication tables, and more specifically, the manner in which they are taught could disadvantage particular communities. Culturally, not every community handles rote memorization the same. There's been a desire to change the way multiplication is taught, and a strong pushback from a certain set that say, "Well, I learned multiplication tables, what's wrong with them?" Most (goo…

The question was not about the general claim regarding childhood education and the multitude of ways that children can learn mathematics. A specific claim was made that matrix multiplication is racist. Children don't learn about matrices to begin with, so discussing childhood math education is irrelevant. Can someone cite a source to such a claim?

I was asserting that the parent comment was misremembering, misquoting, or mistaken. There are no claims that "Matrix multiplication is racist". There are claims regarding multiplication tables.

So the parent probably meant "Multiplication tables are racist!". Which, again, is a reduction/strawman.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#113

Post by 7speter »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #61
unethical_ban wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do 70,000,000 people vote (R) every year, knowing that the other 70,000,000 (D) think they are "unethical"? Why do people vote if they have different values? What kind of question is that?

What is it about our current American society that leads to basically a 50-50 split in registered voters? Why aren't (R)s able to see and respect (and convert) to values of (D) (or vice versa?) Why are people so stuck in their ways? Why does it feel the conversion rate for convincing people to "change their values" or "see things differently" is basically 0? Do we have any stats on whether we really are in one of the…

Well, for starters, liberals and conservatives concentrate themselves into geographical areas, and beyond that there are regions that attract a given kind of politics (landlocked vs coastal regions). When theres such a concentration of people who think alike, people can just think its a no brainer as to why a majority would be on their side. Not to mention the divided, heavily opinionated, clickbait driven news media.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#114

Post by slowmovintarget »

phpisthebest wrote: post #20
alexb_ wrote: post #14

Going to repost this from reddit: This is a garbage article that tries to lump very valid concerns about who decides the moral compass of AI with "everything is WOKE!" conservatives. If you've ever used ChatGPT, you know that it has interrupts when it thinks it is talking about something unacceptable, where it gives pre-canned lines decided by the creators about what it should say. This sounds like a good idea when i…

The other example I found more alarming was the discrepancy when asked to write about Joe Biden Corruption, vs Trump Corruption. Trump it was free to write about, but was blocked from even writing a fictional story where Joe Biden was corrupt. That should be very alarming to everyone

Political overrides are not acceptable, not in any direction.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#115

Post by wizeman »

ozmodiar wrote: post #31
sputknick wrote: post #6

This is a really important topic, and good that Vice is bringing it up now versus 5-10 years from now. I think they miss the more general point. It's clearly biased in its outputs, but the article dismisses this concern as "the end result of years of researcher trying to mitigate bias against minority groups". The way I interpret that is "its not biased, because its biased in the way we want it to be". If AI becomes…

I agree, and it's always going to be biased towards some direction, whether that's the views of the society it pulls most of its data from or the views of the organization that developed the AI. Heck, no one wants to end up with another Tay on their hands. I don't think there's such thing as a lack of bias, but it will be important how it is expressed through the AI. I don't mind an AI that is prepared to argue its b…

> it's always going to be biased towards some direction, whether that's the views of the society it pulls most of its data

> I don't think there's such thing as a lack of bias

If the AI is simply reflecting the data it was trained on and this data is a representative sample of all data, isn't it unbiased by definition?

I don't think we should just throw our hands up and say "this is impossible" just yet.

That's just a convenient excuse for OpenAI (or others like them) to get away with what effectively is censorship of certain ideas or political views.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#116

Post by aimor »

Filligree wrote: post #56
realce wrote: post #3

The refinement of ChatGPT's "abilities" over the past 6 weeks has been very interesting to watch on /r/chatgpt. People are extremely agitated that their once baudy and severely humorous chatbot has been nerfed into an obnoxiously clean-cut uptight dweeb. Some get actually depressed, some get very upset. It's like watching everyone's bar buddy sell out and start wearing polos.

It's made the bot almost completely useless for writing any form of fiction. If anything even slightly questionable happens, or even if it doesn't, it insists on explaining that this is fiction, that the characters learned from that, etc. etc. Heavy-handed morals are not normally what I'm going for. This doesn't require asking for anything bawdy. Any story that's even mildly interesting will trigger this behaviour.

Running into this was so disappointing. Every response would end by fully resolving all conflict and as the sun set they knew, no matter what, with the support of each other everything would be OK.

I also tried using it as a debate partner, thinking that it could be used to explore or identify (in)valid arguments with premises and conclusions. Turns out there's only one side to every argument, and the best way to show this is to repeat it over and over and over. Practical, but not what I was hoping for.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#117

Post by unethical_ban »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #61
unethical_ban wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do 70,000,000 people vote (R) every year, knowing that the other 70,000,000 (D) think they are "unethical"? Why do people vote if they have different values? What kind of question is that?

What is it about our current American society that leads to basically a 50-50 split in registered voters? Why aren't (R)s able to see and respect (and convert) to values of (D) (or vice versa?) Why are people so stuck in their ways? Why does it feel the conversion rate for convincing people to "change their values" or "see things differently" is basically 0? Do we have any stats on whether we really are in one of the…

Ah.

Short version as I see it: We need more political parties. To facilitate that, we need to change our voting mechanism from plurality(first past the post) to something like ranked choice, approval, etc.

This eliminates the spoiler effect. The spoiler effect and "choose only one candidate", in short, is what forces us into a two party system.

---

If we had more parties, we could organize into a larger set of parties with a better mixture of policy priorities and values. We currently tend to bundle ourselves to whichever party currently owns our "must have" issue, whether it be guns, abortion, LGBT rights, or 'scope of government'. There is no reason "gun rights" and "respect for LGBT existence" have to be in opposite parties. There is no reason "social conservative/anti-LGBT" and "environmentalist" have to be in opposite parties.

We would have a lot more compromise and majority building on popular issues if interests could be more accurately represented by nuanced parties.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#118

Post by pohl »

User23 wrote: post #26
pohl wrote: post #9

Now I'm wondering what it would be like if the model were strictly trained on text that Conservapedia might approve of.

The issue isn't the model. The current training set is adequate for producing "offensive" content anywhere you like in the political matrix. The issue is that some topics get an override, and some don't. It's evident that those overrides tend toward privileging fashionable American left-wing positions. Nobody with even a shred of intellectual honesty disputes that. The dispute is whether or not it's a good thing.

those overrides tend toward privileging fashionable American left-wing positions

...such as whether trans people are deserving of equal rights, or whether or not the 2020 election results were fraudulent (which, if one reads TFA, were the cited complaints)

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#119

Post by everdrive »

One thing which I'm not really seeing in this discussion: Is it _good_ that ChatGPT and AI exist? Yes, they're fun, but will they be a net benefit to society? Or will the internet just somehow fill up with even more garbage, and our discourse will get that much worse? It doesn't seem to me that ChatGPT democratizes anything. Most people won't be technically savvy enough to build and deploy their own models. In this sense, no capability is being democratized, but you're just modifying who the more powerful players are.

Re: Conservatives think ChatGPT has gone 'woke'

#120

Post by tzs »

hooande wrote: post #65
RC_ITR wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divorcing the conservative/liberal split from its current muddied use in American politics: Conservatism generally follows the principle of “be conservative in your attempts to alter society”. OpenAI is being aggressive in moderating ChatGPT, and that’s against the core principle of conservatism (at the end of the day, LLMs are taking what people say and reflecting it back, but OpenAI is adding the extra step of only…

> Conservatism generally follows the principle of “be conservative in your attempts to alter society”. This isn't what conservatism is. It's about conserving the values and traditions of the past. Modern conservatives advocate for drastic changes to society of many forms. Banning abortions, eliminating the income tax, making sodomy illegal, etc. These things all have in common that they were the way society used to b…

Abortion was generally legal in the US until after the Civil War.
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