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The Pretty Good House

prettygoodhouse.org

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Re: The Pretty Good House

#281

Post by throw0101a »

Gravityloss wrote: post #236

Here double pane has been the standard for about a century and triple pane after the eighties. No problems whatsoever. I don't even know what's the standard nowadays. Newer windows also quiet down traffic well and reduce the drafty feeling. So there are really very few excuses to not use them. But I don't know what's the name of the phenomenon when someone who uses some primitive technology comes out with all kinds o…

> and reduce the drafty feeling.

While the feeling may be similar to a draft (moving air), the actual phenomenon is radiant heat transfer. The warmth we feel is not just air temperature (which can be less than half), but also the surface temperatures:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_radiant_temperature

* http://www.healthyheating.com/Definitions/Mean%20Radiant.htm

If you sit near a heating radiator, fireplace, or campfire, you will feel warm because energy goes from high concentration (fire) to low/er concentration (your body).

But if you sit near a badly insulating window, your body has the higher amount of energy (heat) so energy goes from you to the window. You are the radiator for the window; the window is an 'anti-radiator' (it 'attracts' heat).

Re: The Pretty Good House

#282

Post by agdasdigonio »

Gravityloss wrote: post #236

Here double pane has been the standard for about a century and triple pane after the eighties. No problems whatsoever. I don't even know what's the standard nowadays. Newer windows also quiet down traffic well and reduce the drafty feeling. So there are really very few excuses to not use them. But I don't know what's the name of the phenomenon when someone who uses some primitive technology comes out with all kinds o…

[dead]

Re: The Pretty Good House

#283

Post by topkai22 »

alanwreath wrote: post #211
topkai22 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking to a (housing) developer friend who is also into many of these technologies last year. In short, 3d printing and modularization can reduce cost, but not as much as I would have thought 10 years ago. Framing is only 1/6 of the construction code of the average house, with another 1/6 going to roofing and siding. The other 2/3 of constriction costs are things like design, permitting, dirt work, plumbing, e…

That is interesting, I was predisposed on thinking about the cost of labor. I wonder beyond price what it means for the longevity (or persisting value) of a 3D printed home vs one that - is made of wood - is made by humans (and so possibly deviating from approved spec)

Wood has really good longevity- in the US it’s not hard to find 100+ year old houses all over the place in older settled areas. In Buffalo, NY about half the single family homes for sale are over 100 years old, and they mostly appear wood built.

My unscientific observation is that buildings are more often replaced due to changes in land use and taste than structural failure, and the structural failure modes include foundation issues, earthquakes, fire (far more common in the past), water infiltration, or can be the results of complete neglect.

Anyways, plenty of regions use concrete (what most 3d printed houses are made of) heavily in residential construction. You can look to them to compare and contrast.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#284

Post by bloak »

bradknowles wrote: post #253
bloak wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expect the insulating properties of a gas at normal temperatures and pressures to depend only on the molecular mass. That's 40 for argon, and 28 for nitrogen. This web page ( https://www.pressglass.com/noble-gases-and-thermal-insulatio... ) says the thermal conductivities are 0,026 W/(mK) for air and 0,018 W/(mK) for argon. 26/18 is about 1.44; 40/28 is about 1.43. So perhaps the conductivity is inversely proport…

I'm not exactly sure how they choose which particular gas to use, but I'm sure the lighter gasses will leak more easily. Conceptually, it's like a thermos bottle, and you'd think that you would want a vacuum, but apparently that's hard to keep intact on windows, so a noble gas between the layers works better.

Yes, but not any old noble gas. Helium and neon, for example, have higher thermal conductivities than nitrogen. So it seems like argon is better for the job as well as being cheaper.

(While every noble gas has roughly the same heat capacity by mole/volume. Perhaps some CFCs would have been even better for insulation, but bad for the ozone layer, of course, and rightly banned?)

Re: The Pretty Good House

#285

Post by yojo »

interactivecode wrote: post #279
yojo wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On windows: the seal between single pane windows never fails, because it does not exist. The original windows in my house have been working for 110 years. I put storm windows over them in the winter to get a little extra efficiency. Some of the double panes added during the 90s remodel have busted seals and need to be replaced. It’s a minimum $1500 to get a window replaced around here with a quality modern replacemen…

I dunno the single pane windows on my 100 year old house also have seals around them that let water through. They really need to be fixed or replaced. 1500 is not much if you compare it with any tech device upgrade cycle.

Another difference between single and multi-pane is repairability.

The seal between the pane and the wood is usually glazing. If that’s failing, you need to replace it. You can buy glazing putty at a big box store, and see how to do it on YouTube. With a little practice, it’s about ten minutes/window. $15 in materials will do a dozen or so.

If it’s leaking between the wood, you need to caulk. That’s $3-$13 in materials/tools (depending on if you already have the gun) and a couple minutes labor.

You may also need some flashing over the top to direct the water away from the pane. This is slightly more complicated. Probably $30 and an hour or so.

If you don’t want to learn these skills, a handyman should be up to any of them.

Multi pane windows also need to be flashed and caulked, just like your single pane. The only piece that I mentioned that is different is the glazing. Glazing can be replaced, the interior seal on a multi-pane window cannot

Re: The Pretty Good House

#286

Post by [deleted] »

yojo wrote: post #269
Gravityloss wrote: post #236

Here double pane has been the standard for about a century and triple pane after the eighties. No problems whatsoever. I don't even know what's the standard nowadays. Newer windows also quiet down traffic well and reduce the drafty feeling. So there are really very few excuses to not use them. But I don't know what's the name of the phenomenon when someone who uses some primitive technology comes out with all kinds o…

On windows: the seal between single pane windows never fails, because it does not exist. The original windows in my house have been working for 110 years. I put storm windows over them in the winter to get a little extra efficiency. Some of the double panes added during the 90s remodel have busted seals and need to be replaced. It’s a minimum $1500 to get a window replaced around here with a quality modern replacemen…

[deleted]

Re: The Pretty Good House

#287

Post by throw0101a »

carabiner wrote: post #11

I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn? I just want a 2-bedroom, 1,000 sq ft bungalow and am willing to pay 60-70% more than the average $/sqft in my city if they do a good job. I'd rather have a nice small place rather than a huge…

> I'm looking at building a home as a first time home owner in the next few years. One thing I'm wondering is how many headaches can I avoid if I just choose an expensive builder and not try to haggle or save a buck at every turn?

Look for architects and builders that have certifications or at least interests in Passiv house (PH) designs.

You don't need to go all the way to that level (which may cost more), but the folks interested in it will be more atuned to building science and the little details needed to achieve results.

The Pretty Good House folks created the book and 'movement' because they felt that PH was "too much" for a lot of people (builders, owners), but wanted something better than 'just' code.

The PGH folks run a podcast called BS and Beer: BS = building science. They encourage folks to hold local gatherings of builders on the topic of BS, which is how their podcast started. You may wish to see if there are any folks that hold such meetings in your area.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#288

Post by Ensorceled »

adamhp wrote: post #210
Ensorceled wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ROI should absolutely be a part of calculation, else it would be easy to spend (even) more money on a home that's not desirable or enjoyable. ROI is being used in it's economics section, literally as return on investment. > I don't think that homelessness has much to do with construction costs No, but it does have to do with ROI, which you hand waved away above by redefining ROI to be non-financial rewards such as…

"Investment" in this context is personal investment as a primary residence. You seem to be purposefully missing the point or cherry picking a singular definition of the word. The OP is literally a book about how to build a good home for yourself that is affordable. I'm fairly certain 90% of the audience on HN understand the housing crisis that exists and no one here is arguing for more rent-seeking with this book.

ROI: Return on investment (ROI) is a performance measure used to evaluate the efficiency or profitability of an investment or compare the efficiency of a number of different investments.

What do you think it means? "Enjoyment of my property" is an important aspect of a Cost-Benefit Analysis but it's not ROI.

Anyway, it a is a singular problem in an otherwise laudable process.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#289

Post by wiradikusuma »

itsoktocry wrote: post #147
Spooky23 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever deal with an IT contractor? Construction guys are worse. You need to watch everything. You want them always watching their back and being dissatisfied, but not enough to walk off the job. Happy contractors are usually trouble.

> You want them always watching their back and being dissatisfied Ah yes, don't let the proles be happy. You sound horrible to work for. Of course, if your boss did this to you at work, there would be endless complaints.

I tend to agree with his suggestion (to a degree).

For construction work, you're paying with your hard earned money, and you can't Undo, Delete, or Git Revert.

Re: The Pretty Good House

#290

Post by yamtaddle »

yojo wrote: post #285
interactivecode wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno the single pane windows on my 100 year old house also have seals around them that let water through. They really need to be fixed or replaced. 1500 is not much if you compare it with any tech device upgrade cycle.

Another difference between single and multi-pane is repairability. The seal between the pane and the wood is usually glazing. If that’s failing, you need to replace it. You can buy glazing putty at a big box store, and see how to do it on YouTube. With a little practice, it’s about ten minutes/window. $15 in materials will do a dozen or so. If it’s leaking between the wood, you need to caulk. That’s $3-$13 in materia…

For that matter, it's not hard to learn to cut entirely new panes for old-school windows, and the tools aren't particularly expensive. Break a modern window and you'll most likely be replacing the whole thing, frame, casing(!), and all—the entire old window becomes trash.

... however, I do prefer the modern ones, myself. Energy loss through single-pane windows is no joke.

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