MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max • Hacker News Board

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#461

Post by kitsunesoba » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:50 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #115

smoldesu wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me: - No nagware (no Apple Music pop-ups, advertisements for safari, login nag in settings, et. al) - Built-in package manager - Having (relative) parity between production and development Between those three, you probably couldn't pay me to go back to MacOS. Adding my own package manager, disabling ads and making my Mac into a Linux-equivalent machine is possible, but it's a lot of work to maintain and set up. I…

I have an M1 Pro MBP and Linux running on a Framework laptop. The Linux built in package manager is only ok. It often lags behind in versions of things I need. I ended up using Homebrew on both Mac and Linux. For the cases the Linux built-in package manager is too out of date I use Homebrew. It's not perfect on either system. > - Having (relative) parity between production and development For certain classes of devel…

The thing that gets me about Linux package managers is how easily they can wreck your desktop. Granted mac package managers aren’t perfect here either but I think it would make a lot of sense for there to be some way to designate things like audio systems or your DE as “system” packages and as such be protected and very difficult to accidentally screw up with e.g. dependency resolution gone awry.

I’d also not be opposed to a package manager more geared towards making sure things work without fuss than trying to reduce redundancy. I don’t really mind if there’s multiple versions of whatever lib installed if that’s what it takes. Storage is cheap, my patience isn’t.

In theory flatpak and such should meet that need, but the implementation is so much more quirky and troublesome compared to e.g. Mac application bundles.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#462

Post by memco » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #118

_fzslm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTerm2 and lima [1] with a ARM64 Linux virtual machine w/ Rosetta (so I can still run x86_64 Linux code!) enabled me to fall in love with my MacBook Pro in this regard. i feel more productive than on a Linux machine now. MacOS is not without its developer power tools, if you dig around enough! [1] https://github.com/lima-vm/lima

For me MacBookPro with M2 chips would be perfect if the 13in model allowed 64GB RAM. My workflow requires me to run Docker (intel images) heavily with several containers. Having a virtualization layer is pretty resource consuming. Usually the Docker + containers I use take around 5GB RAM alone. Under that configuration I've found 32GB to be just within the limit of usability. 16GB are just not enough. Also, for some…

> For me MacBookPro with M2 chips would be perfect if the 13in model allowed 64GB RAM

The new 14" model is only slightly bigger than the 13" (.4"x.4" bigger and .5lb heavier) and supports up to 96GB of RAM so may be a reasonable consolation if those size and weight compromises are tolerable for you. Additionally, you'd get a better screen, keyboard, more ports, better wifi and bluetooth, and more CPU & GPU capacity. Of course cost will also go up quite a bit.

It would also help if the virtualization story on Macs improved so that you wouldn't need to have all that RAM just to compensate.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#463

Post by tgma » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:52 PM UTC

cpsns wrote: post #405

mo_42 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I switched to Asahi Linux on my M1. It’s becoming the perfect experience for me: Apple hardware with an OS without bloat. (Yes, many things don’t work yet. For personal use it’s fine though)

I’ll never be overly critical of anyone’s computing choices, but this just seems like the worst of both worlds to me unless you specifically want to tinker with Apple-ARM Linux. Why not Linux on much better supported hardware from Lenovo or Dell? It just doesn’t make sense to me to buy such an expensive computer only to remove a core part of the package, Mac OS.

> Why not Linux on much better supported hardware from Lenovo or Dell?

Specific Intel laptops aside, something doesn’t work for each of them either. These days sleep is a big issue with Linux on modern Intel laptops due to Windows Modern Standby. All in all, characterizing Asahi Linux as poorly supported is probably just based on some expectation that does not necessarily match reality. It runs very well and GPU is about the only thing that is missing. Plus, Linux on Macs has always had the advantage of having a big community focused on solving very standardized hardware issues. Once they work they work for everyone out of the box.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#464

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:53 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#465

Post by wpm » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:53 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #200

jslql wrote: post #180

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With Intel higher = better. What’s better, ultra or pro?

Ultra since pro is the baseline adjective. Not that I find the naming any good but Max v Ultra would have been more of a head scratcher.

Apple Marketing under Joz has been in love with this Pro-Max-Ultra tiering, and it's mind boggling. Very very confusing to have Max(imum) be the middle tier. If Ultra was Ultimate, maybe it'd make more sense, but Pro-Ultra-Max just makes more sense.

But even Max kinda stinks because it's basically the same word as "Macs". Max Macs, Macs Max. Ugh

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#466

Post by amatecha » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:54 PM UTC

trynewideas wrote: post #460

> With up to 96GB of unified memory in the M2 Max model, creators can work on scenes so large that PC laptops can’t even run them.4 ... > 4. Testing was conducted by Apple in November and December 2022 using preproduction 16-inch MacBook Pro systems with Apple M2 Max, 12-core CPU, 38-core GPU, 96GB of RAM, and 8TB SSD, as well as a production Intel Core i9-based PC system with NVIDIA Quadro RTX 6000 graphics with 24G…

Well, to be fair, if you go to NVIDIA's site for "professional desktop workstations", the Quadro RTX 6000 is precisely what they show first: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/desktop-gr...

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#467

Post by kcb » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:55 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #258

myself248 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shame I can't buy an M2 Max on an ATX mobo.

I imagine a lot of the performance of the M1 and thereafter is a direct result of moving the memory closer to the die. The power efficiency, sure, that's all engineering, but super close and fast memory right next to the CPU is only one step away from AMD's 3D v-cache that has (had) the 5800X3D beating out newer 7000 series AMD chips.

I think the bigger factor is that the 3D v-cache is SRAM, which is why it needs a whole stacked die for just 64mb.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#468

Post by incanus77 » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:55 PM UTC

optymizer wrote: post #153

dchuk wrote: post #14

It’s crazy how far ahead Apple is getting in the laptop game with these new chips. I have the first gen MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro (ok maybe they’re not winning the naming game), and it’s a perfect computer. Battery life is literally all day, every single action is instant, I have zero regard for many apps or tabs I have open. It’s just perfect. I have literally traveled with just a 30 watt anker brick for my phone…

The hardware is indeed great. The software experience is getting worse imo, particularly when upgrading. It used to be rock solid for me. The m1 worked without any issues for 2 months. I upgraded yesterday to macOS Ventura: * Upgrade finished but laptop froze. Hard reset. * On first boot, the new System Settings failed to load icons, then froze. Trying to quit it froze the OS. Hard reset. * I left the laptop plugged…

I have an M1 mini and an M1 Pro 14”, both with 16GB. I upgraded both to Ventura 13.1 and have really had zero issues with a variety of hardware setups.

The software _design_ however… yes, Apple is sliding. The new Settings is a mess. It’s so disorienting, even when I put aside the fact that I had used the old, NeXT-derived one for 20 years. You just can’t find anything without search, which adds steps.

There is a relative lack of attention to polish, discoverability, and charm. It’s all just made to be slick and shiny now.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#469

Post by walthamstow » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:56 PM UTC

interpol_p wrote: post #65

gnufied wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both a latest generation Thinkpad P1 Gen5 and Macbook Pro 16 inch M1 pro and while it is true that Macbook comes pretty close to being a perfect laptop, I still miss the productivity of a Linux laptop (for backend dev work). From what hardware POV you are correct, I wish though Apple would adopt Carbon Magnesium chasis that thinkpad uses. For same 16inch size, Thinkpad is noticeably lighter. I can happy lug my…

I have the same complaint about weight I upgraded from the 13" M1 Air to the 14" MacBook Pro M1 Max While Blender performance (rendering especially) is much faster, I sorely miss the MacBook Air's portability. The 14" is built like a brick. Compile times are faster, video editing is nicer with more RAM in the Pro, but it's a really tough call given just how different the weight is

I just got my work machine upgraded to the 14in Pro from the 13in M1 Air recently. I think overall the extra screen pixels are worth the weight tradeoff. It's only a little heavier and I don't really notice it on my back when I'm cycling

I did love the M1 Air though! Probably the best laptop I've ever used pound-for-pound.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#470

Post by 10xDev » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:57 PM UTC

Building a PC doesn't make much sense anymore for most people now with cloud computing, Steam Deck, Apple silicon and GPU prices being ridiculously high.