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My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

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Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#61

Post by gizmo686 »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #39
throwaway1777 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your take but politicians do have a target on their back that the average citizen doesn’t.

But not one so big that every one of them needs multimillion dollars worth of protecting. A handful absolutely do, the vast majority don't. They will be perfectly fine. They might catch an egg or cake, or in the rare instance a fist: they'll still be fine.

Most politicians do not get secret service protection. Only those in the line of succesion, former presidents and family of the above.

The handful of congresspeople in leadership get special protection from capital police. Most elected congress people only get special protection if there is a specific concern.

https://www.secretservice.gov/about/faq/general

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#62

Post by cowsup »

hotpotamus wrote: post #49
phpisthebest wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General rule for me is If any person has soooo much power we need a dedicated team of people to protect them continuously, that person has too much power and the solution is not ever-increasing amount of security, but ever decreasing amount of power to that individual

I wonder how big Musk or Bezos's security teams are?

Nowhere near as large, or influential, as the Secret Service. If you’ve ever had to commute near airport, and the POTUS is flying in or out, you’re essentially screwed, for potentially hours.

Musk or Bezos could request a place deny entry to other customers while they shop or eat. Secret Service can demand. It’s a whole different beast altogether.

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#63

Post by tylermw »

throw827474737 wrote: post #52
itslennysfault wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'm surprised by "follow the river" as a flight instruction. That sounds like the directions you'd get from someone that doesn't understand cardinal directions. "Turn right at the gas station, then turn left at the big oak tree" or something. I have no experience with flying, but I assumed it would be a heading / cardinal direction and not "turn right at [landmark]"

Hmm, can someone just paint me that path into Google Maps? Washington National has no 18, but only a 19, and I guess everyone takes off southwards as directly north is the White House? Also the river is like parallel to the runway and then the natural extension of it, so "follow the river" there is super clear, no turn needed? I must be looking at the wrong airport?

Many planes take off northwards, and immediately bank to follow the river.

Famously, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#64

Post by advisedwang »

itslennysfault wrote: post #43
godshatter wrote: post #25

Shouldn't the dispatcher have given more precise directions than "follow the river"? If they had said "take a right and follow the river", this wouldn't have been a problem. I suppose they were used to professional pilots knowing what was meant, but they were already working to fit a small plane into a larger system presumably filled with mostly larger jets from commercial airlines that flew in and out of that airpor…

Honestly, I'm surprised by "follow the river" as a flight instruction. That sounds like the directions you'd get from someone that doesn't understand cardinal directions. "Turn right at the gas station, then turn left at the big oak tree" or something. I have no experience with flying, but I assumed it would be a heading / cardinal direction and not "turn right at [landmark]"

"follow the river" is more than a single turn; the river winds so it's a sequence of turns. Because of this saying follow the river is much more concise than the specific turns.

Many of the takeoff and landing patterns do follow the river: https://skyvector.com/airport/DCA/Ronald-Reagan-Washington-N...

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#65

Post by snowwrestler »

throw827474737 wrote: post #52
itslennysfault wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'm surprised by "follow the river" as a flight instruction. That sounds like the directions you'd get from someone that doesn't understand cardinal directions. "Turn right at the gas station, then turn left at the big oak tree" or something. I have no experience with flying, but I assumed it would be a heading / cardinal direction and not "turn right at [landmark]"

Hmm, can someone just paint me that path into Google Maps? Washington National has no 18, but only a 19, and I guess everyone takes off southwards as directly north is the White House? Also the river is like parallel to the runway and then the natural extension of it, so "follow the river" there is super clear, no turn needed? I must be looking at the wrong airport?

When planes take off northbound from National, they immediately bank left (northwest) to remain over the river and avoid the exclusion zones in DC.

Conversely, planes landing southbound follow the river and so are banking to the right until a few seconds before touching down.

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#66

Post by aidenn0 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #38
thepasswordis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The book makes it clear that the Secret Service is constantly underfunded and sorely lacking in modern technology, with agents sometimes having to use their personal car to transport the people they're protecting because their official cars aren't working. Maybe the answer is to cool it with the idea that government officials all need to have large personal protective details. Isn't that the job of the police? And a…

General rule for me is If any person has soooo much power we need a dedicated team of people to protect them continuously, that person has too much power and the solution is not ever-increasing amount of security, but ever decreasing amount of power to that individual

Assassinating the president has little to do with denying him the power of the presidency, and more to do with what he is a symbol of.

Kind of like how 9/11 wasn't about killing some office workers

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#67

Post by pixl97 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #38
thepasswordis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The book makes it clear that the Secret Service is constantly underfunded and sorely lacking in modern technology, with agents sometimes having to use their personal car to transport the people they're protecting because their official cars aren't working. Maybe the answer is to cool it with the idea that government officials all need to have large personal protective details. Isn't that the job of the police? And a…

General rule for me is If any person has soooo much power we need a dedicated team of people to protect them continuously, that person has too much power and the solution is not ever-increasing amount of security, but ever decreasing amount of power to that individual

So how do you plan to deal with the continuation of government and nuclear weapon problem?

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#68

Post by ryandrake »

jaclaz wrote: post #6
plondon514 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe he started flying in his late 30s/early 40s so it would be around the early 1970s. Edit: I just asked him (he’s at the dentist) and he said around 1980, guess I was wrong about when he started flying!

I would say no earlier than October 1977: https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N47943

Then definitely before the DC ADIZ. It's kind of tough to make this mistake anymore.

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#69

Post by cowsup »

throw827474737 wrote: post #52
itslennysfault wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'm surprised by "follow the river" as a flight instruction. That sounds like the directions you'd get from someone that doesn't understand cardinal directions. "Turn right at the gas station, then turn left at the big oak tree" or something. I have no experience with flying, but I assumed it would be a heading / cardinal direction and not "turn right at [landmark]"

Hmm, can someone just paint me that path into Google Maps? Washington National has no 18, but only a 19, and I guess everyone takes off southwards as directly north is the White House? Also the river is like parallel to the runway and then the natural extension of it, so "follow the river" there is super clear, no turn needed? I must be looking at the wrong airport?

You’re correct. I live near DC and travel there for photography (much like the novice pilot in the OP).

If you’re flying near DC, or anywhere really, you should at least have a broad understanding of where you cannot fly. That is your responsibility; nobody in your ear will say “remember, don’t go to the restricted airspace.”

The pilot never claims to be the victim here, either. They screwed up and learned their lesson.

Re: My grandfather was almost shot down at the White House (2018)

#70

Post by goodcanadian »

boringg wrote: post #36

I feel like there has to be a lot of stories similar to this where people got really close to getting shot down. Rare but not completely uncommon .. or is this truly a unique story?

I really doubt that he was all that close to being shot down. I actually doubt fighters were scrambled or missiles armed. They might have been if he had entered restricted airspace, but from the story, it sure sounds like he did not. Even if he did enter restricted airspace, the threat would have been assessed, actions taken, and so on. Perhaps, he might have even gotten a fighter escort out of restricted airspace. Shooting down a plane over a populated area is going to be an absolute last resort.
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