New Mac Mini • Hacker News Board

Re: New Mac Mini

#181

Post by jeffbee » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:25 PM UTC

jimsmart wrote: post #157

cmatthias wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8GB of general-purpose RAM, regardless of form factor, is dirt cheap. In fact, not having the sockets might make it cheaper than socketed RAM in volume, since there are fewer parts in total.

Except, with Apple's new kit here, the RAM isn't simply some external chip soldered to the main board, it's actually on-die with the CPU silicon (and everything else in that silicon: GPU, memory controllers, etc). So yes, arguably there are fewer parts (just one), but in the event of e.g. some bad RAM during manufacture, it's far more costly to throw out the chip containing that bad RAM.

No. It is not possible to make DRAM on the same silicon process as high-performance CPU logic. It is a myth that Apple Silicon includes the RAM on its die. Apple uses external LPDDR packages, just like everyone else, which you can clearly see in this photograph of the mac mini's CPU module: https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2021/01/28102657/m1_ch...

Re: New Mac Mini

#182

Post by Varloom » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:26 PM UTC

I can't use my M1 mini with non-retina monitor because of how blurry it is.

They stopped providing font anti-aliasing (default on Windows) few years ago in MacOS to make retina displays more relevant.

Re: New Mac Mini

#183

Post by dutchbrit » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:26 PM UTC

crypt1d wrote: post #7

disappointed to see them still selling these with 8gb RAM. More than a dozen chrome tabs and a few discord servers has been enough to crash/significantly slow down my m1 mac mini edit: the ad says up to 24/32GB of ram, but seems like 8gb/16gb models are the only ones available for pre-order at the moment.

Indeed, but then again, it says more about the apps really. No real reason why they should consume so much memory.

Re: New Mac Mini

#184

Post by chimerasaurus » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #92

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another anecdote: I have a M1 air and an m1 iMac both with 8GB and have never run into a problem. I think 8gb is still the sweet spot for casual users.

16GB M1 mini here. I've had memory issues exactly zero times. Current memory usage is at 15%. I've had games running with full on tab-hoarded browsers and IDEs open among with any other crap I haven't bothered to shut down.

I have a 16gb m2 MBA. I’ve hit memory issues exactly once.

I had FF open with a ton of tabs, Capture One open, and I was stacking 400 frames in PixInsight.

The fact I had to push that hard was immensely impressive.

Re: New Mac Mini

#185

Post by crazygringo » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #171

The thing that's truly insulting is their trade-in offer for a late 2020 M1 8G/512G is only $330 vs. an eBay average selling price of over $500.

Resale prices on eBay have always been significantly higher than any trade-in for any product for any company -- this isn't an Apple thing.

And remember that eBay charges a selling fee of 12.9%, and you have to go through all of the time and effort of photographing, listing, selling, packaging, shipping, and dealing with a (small) risk of buyer fraud.

On the other hand, Apple takes it off of your hands hassle-free, risk-free, and you pay no sales tax on the trade-in value (which in NYC is 8.875%, for example).

There's nothing insulting about it.

Re: New Mac Mini

#186

Post by Koshkin » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

guestbest wrote: post #111

Nextgrid wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More than a dozen chrome tabs and a few discord servers has been enough to crash/significantly slow down my m1 Mac mini On the other hand, maybe there should be pushback against shitty inefficient software? I remember a decade ago being able to have a dozen browser tabs and instant messaging clients on 4GB of RAM just fine, and neither the web nor instant messaging experience has changed significantly enough to war…

I’m using a M1 and it is very performant with Brave and unlock origin with only 8gb ram and XCode opening in the background. I try to stay away from Discord and Slack on the desktop as years ago they would cause my system to slow down

> very performant with Brave

To add to that, my 8GB "late 2014" Mac Mini is very performant with (the modern) Linux on it. (It was barely usable running a recent MacOS.)

Re: New Mac Mini

#187

Post by cmatthias » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

jimsmart wrote: post #157

cmatthias wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8GB of general-purpose RAM, regardless of form factor, is dirt cheap. In fact, not having the sockets might make it cheaper than socketed RAM in volume, since there are fewer parts in total.

Except, with Apple's new kit here, the RAM isn't simply some external chip soldered to the main board, it's actually on-die with the CPU silicon (and everything else in that silicon: GPU, memory controllers, etc). So yes, arguably there are fewer parts (just one), but in the event of e.g. some bad RAM during manufacture, it's far more costly to throw out the chip containing that bad RAM.

I don't think this is correct.

https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/understanding-apples-un... is an article which describes the architecture. It's not on-die, it's next to the CPU, basically as close as it could physically possibly be without being on the die.

Here's a photo of an M1 CPU:

https://www.techinreal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2feddf...

Those chips on the right side are LPDDR4x chips (which you can verify by googling the part numbers visible on them). They are "off-the-shelf" so to speak, not custom on-die memory.

Re: New Mac Mini

#188

Post by FollowingTheDao » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

simplotek wrote: post #147

Nextgrid wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More than a dozen chrome tabs and a few discord servers has been enough to crash/significantly slow down my m1 Mac mini On the other hand, maybe there should be pushback against shitty inefficient software? I remember a decade ago being able to have a dozen browser tabs and instant messaging clients on 4GB of RAM just fine, and neither the web nor instant messaging experience has changed significantly enough to war…

> On the other hand, maybe there should be pushback against shitty inefficient software? How would that work? You whine on an online forum over how bloated a software is, and in the process opt to be deprived of it's usage? Or would you continue to complain about bloated software while using it? Because none of those scenarios offer a compelling reason for the software maintainers to rearchitect their whole applicati…

"Meanwhile, a 8GB stick of RAM can be bought for what? 40€? "

Ha! Not if you want to get it in your MacMini. 8GB will set you back $200!

The Apple Cult has gone all in...

Re: New Mac Mini

#189

Post by horsawlarway » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

simplotek wrote: post #147

Nextgrid wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More than a dozen chrome tabs and a few discord servers has been enough to crash/significantly slow down my m1 Mac mini On the other hand, maybe there should be pushback against shitty inefficient software? I remember a decade ago being able to have a dozen browser tabs and instant messaging clients on 4GB of RAM just fine, and neither the web nor instant messaging experience has changed significantly enough to war…

> On the other hand, maybe there should be pushback against shitty inefficient software? How would that work? You whine on an online forum over how bloated a software is, and in the process opt to be deprived of it's usage? Or would you continue to complain about bloated software while using it? Because none of those scenarios offer a compelling reason for the software maintainers to rearchitect their whole applicati…

Way fucking cheaper than 40. Closer to $16 unless you really need DDR5. Even then, it's still around $29/8gb if buying 32gb or more.

The issue is that Apple is integrating the RAM in the SoC. Personally, I'm not really a fan of "smart-phonification" of my desktop computers.

I get that the mini is in a bit of a weird spot, since it's still got fairly challenging size constraints, but still... not my cup of tea.

Re: New Mac Mini

#190

Post by dnh44 » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

lvl102 wrote: post #45

Why get the M2 Pro Mini when you can just opt for Mac Studio with M1 Max? They're roughly in the same price bracket.

Maybe this wouldn't matter to a lot of people but the M2 Pro Mini has HDMI 2.1 while the M1 Studio does not. You need HDMI 2.1 to get more than 60hz out of a 4k monitor.