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The FBI Identified a Tor User

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Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#141
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you did illegal things illegally. Yep. I said I don't understand people who do illegal things over their own connection, i.e., stupidly. And who owned the public AP? McDonald's.

McDonald's has video cameras pointing at every inch of their property 24/7. All they need is a timestamp from the AP and they'll go find your license plate in the parking lot on the surveillance tapes.

Did you miss the part about a long range wifi antenna?

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't they need to know who he is before they could target him and acquire his IP? Unless your suggesting parallel construction?

I read the doc and it seems like the case is built on information gathered by the government but they won't say how. They don't want to say how because it's supposed to be a national security issue, which is understandable but not how our legal system works (or should work). They are saying that they got his IP via tor and that that IP address went to ISIS websites, but again they won't say how they have this informa…

> I'm saying that if they had targeted this individual, the feds thought he was up to something but had no real evidence, it would be really easy to find this guys IP address and then say he went to X website and he needs to go to jail -but we can't tell you how we found this out. Do you see where the problem is? We still have due process in this country or at least we're supposed to.

Yeah, it's been a problem for a while now. I do think you're referring to Parallel Construction, a.k.a. evidence laundering.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there proof of anything like this or is it just a conspiracy theory you’re peddling?

Parallel construction is not a theory in any way in the US. It is a "decades old, a bedrock concept" according to the DEA. Outside the US, I have no idea.

> Outside the US, I have no idea.

Genealogists use parallel construction to build out their families. Data from a large variety of sources gets used to indicate and corroborate individuals.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#144
I have a Glinet[0] router that has Tor functionality and 'torifies' your connection, so even if there's some JS 0day that executes trying to decloak me, the adversary just gets a Tor IP instead of my home connection IP.

Note: I connect to Tor from my torified Glinet router which is doing Tor-over-Tor which is considered 'dangerous'[1] but I do it anyway.

This might be overkill for most, and I'm not doing anything illegal (I mostly browse clearnet sites instead of hidden services anyways).

[0] https://www.gl-inet.com/

[1] https://tor.stackexchange.com/questions/427/is-running-tor-o...

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#145
post #110

I have second hand knowledge of lawsuits that have been dropped by the FBI during discovery because it would require them revealing zero days they have on Tor. Recently this has started getting increasing levels of press exposure[1] including in CSAM cases. The FBI has also continued to run CSAM websites after takeover to collect intel, and likely run honeypots for other content. If your adversary is a state actor, p…

> If you're sitting in front of a computer that you're using for something the U.S. government has significant interest in prosecuting, that device should be considered compromised and adversarial - you should act accordingly. Yep: stop breaking the law. The vast majority the US government has significant interest in prosecuting, the general public is OK with.

> The vast majority the US government has significant interest in prosecuting, the general public is OK with.

Did you really just shoot down your own argument by acknowledging that there are some things the government has a significant interest in prosecuting, but which the general public doesn’t find objectionable?

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#146

I have second hand knowledge of lawsuits that have been dropped by the FBI during discovery because it would require them revealing zero days they have on Tor. Recently this has started getting increasing levels of press exposure[1] including in CSAM cases. The FBI has also continued to run CSAM websites after takeover to collect intel, and likely run honeypots for other content. If your adversary is a state actor, p…

Is there really any way to hide from a motivated state actor? Asking about it on HN is definitely not one. Relevant xkcd: 538 [1] [1] https://xkcd.com/538/

it depends on what you're doing (as far as I understand as a criminal news nerd)

the police-justice system is usually broke for commoners. So yeah, if you're not doing a serious offense, they will never catch you. Where I live, you can buy weed. Even if the government says they're motivated to stop it, they don't have the resources to plant police everywhere. If your home was 'visited' by burglars, they would just take fingerprints. They wear gloves, and that's enough to avoid the state actor.

if you're doing a real serious crime, you can kind-ish avoid attention, if you know retention laws and stuff. if the (mostly digital) traces you generated are too old, they would have disappeared or would not be usable in court. if you appeared on mall CCTV months before you did the crime, have been browsing sites over a year before, ... these data should technically have been deleted.- Just don't create new data in the meantime.

In a similar fashion, some white collar criminals host data in their lawyers office. it is so hard to have a warrant for a lawyers office that you can be safe. A law teacher at our engineering college said it was convenient to hang out with a lawyer - just drop your phone in their purse if cops show up.

then, you can avoid some digital communications. Putin and friends are well known for being mostly offline, unlike some ministers at western governments, for example. Send letters, and you will have that perfect forward secrecy.

there has also been some stories about plausible deniability ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability ), especially among rogue corporations and corrupt politicians. ie when you create data, you can do it in a way where it says what it says, but it's not meaningful in court.

don't drag attention on you. cops shows teach you how so many criminals are found out after a traffic stop, when they were speeding or ran a red light. The government can't check everyone, so they check those who stand out.

Lastly, I remember watching a youtuber who got out of prison, and who said that three people could only keep a secret if 2 are dead. it's a bit pessimistic and dark, but maybe don't just involve everyone in your crimes.

I would like to know if series like Breaking Bad are (or were) realistic. I know some criminals learned a lot from movies.

Edit : or just befriend politicians, you would be above any law in most places. Someone in France once stole 2.5 billions $ in one shot from the government. It what became known as the uramin scandal, and nobody was caught. So everything is possible.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#147
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're sitting in front of a computer that you're using for something the U.S. government has significant interest in prosecuting, that device should be considered compromised and adversarial - you should act accordingly. Yep: stop breaking the law. The vast majority the US government has significant interest in prosecuting, the general public is OK with.

Lol if you don't want to be fucked with by the government, just don't break the law! Unfortunately that doesn't work. Sometimes legal activities are best kept under wraps. I have a signed and executed federal search warrant in my drawer. I was tossed in a cell. I was dragged to a hospital. I was sent the bill for the "search" and am currently being hounded by debt collectors. Nothing was found and I did nothing wrong…

Aren't you mixing up two different things? There's your problem, being harassed for something you say you didn't do. And there is the criminal's problem, being found out for something they did do. For the latter problem, not doing the illegal thing sounds like a solid strategy.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#148
post #107
post #26

I will never understand people who do illegal things over their own IP. Is it really that hard to find an open access point? Way back in the day when I torrented all my content I used a long-range wifi antenna connected to a public AP and a dedicated PC with a scrubbed drive that never connected to my home network.

>According to the complaint against him, Al-Azhari allegedly visited a dark web site that hosts “unofficial propaganda and photographs related to ISIS” multiple times on May 14, 2019. I don't understand... how can this be illegal?

This is cherry-picked out of a larger case because we care that they know any information about what they did via Tor. I don't think he's specifically been arrested for visiting a website even one like an ISIS propaganda one.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#149

I have second hand knowledge of lawsuits that have been dropped by the FBI during discovery because it would require them revealing zero days they have on Tor. Recently this has started getting increasing levels of press exposure[1] including in CSAM cases. The FBI has also continued to run CSAM websites after takeover to collect intel, and likely run honeypots for other content. If your adversary is a state actor, p…

Is there really any way to hide from a motivated state actor? Asking about it on HN is definitely not one. Relevant xkcd: 538 [1] [1] https://xkcd.com/538/

Possibly with the help of another motivated state actor.

I believe one of the theories about the proliferation of the current organization of political entities is that the only organization that can reliably compete with one nation-state is another nation-state.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#150

I have second hand knowledge of lawsuits that have been dropped by the FBI during discovery because it would require them revealing zero days they have on Tor. Recently this has started getting increasing levels of press exposure[1] including in CSAM cases. The FBI has also continued to run CSAM websites after takeover to collect intel, and likely run honeypots for other content. If your adversary is a state actor, p…

> lawsuits that have been dropped by the FBI during discovery because it would require them revealing zero days

Schneier himself predicted this in Applied Cryptography in the mid-90's.

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