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The FBI Identified a Tor User

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Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#101

Post by CommitSyn »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #82
nostrademons wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parallel construction. They use their real methods to identify the user, then once they know the user, specifically target them with simpler known methods to build evidence for the case. In the court filing, they present evidence that they've gained through known methods which don't work all that well unless you already have a suspect, but they actually caught the suspect using methods that are not public (and won't…

But if they were using parallel construction, surely the criminal complaint wouldn't make claims they can't prove using the non-secret chain of evidence, right? Here the court filing alleges that the FBI knows what IP address the defendant used to visit a Tor hidden service. Don't they now have to prove that claim if they want the prosecution to succeed?

They also know what specific pages on the offending websites they accessed.

I'm wondering if the classified document wasn't about tor, but about the 'implants' aka malware that were leaked in the same set of Snowden documents.

I think as much as tor being broken in some fixable way, they'd like it known even less that the FBI installs malware on the devices of persons of interest who haven't been convicted of anything.

If they truly can't break Tor and they deem the person of interest important enough for "national security" then I don't think anyone who has studied history, American or otherwise, believes that they are going to throw their hands up and say "welp, that's it."

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#102

Post by Scoundreller »

johnisgood wrote: post #77
jwilk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://support.torproject.org/tbb/tbb-34/ > We configure NoScript to allow JavaScript by default in Tor Browser because many websites will not work with JavaScript disabled. Most users would give up on Tor entirely if we disabled JavaScript by default because it would cause so many problems for them.

That said, popular websites on/for Tor are free of JavaScript and they have implemented everything (such as captchas, or the "JavaScript is enabled" warning, and so forth) using pure HTML and CSS. They do use OpenResty[1], too, which is NGINX + Lua. Good stuff. [1] https://openresty.org/ , https://github.com/openresty/lua-nginx-module

What I despise is clearnet sites that refuse to open if you don’t execute JavaScript even when I perfectly well known the page doesn’t depend on it.

(Fuck you imgur)

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#103

Post by donkeyd »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #93
maxlybbert wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of laws about, say, attempted murder. Also, it’s possible for somebody to be convicted of shoplifting even if they’re nabbed before they leave the store if it’s clear that they were in the process of stealing items ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt ). And when there isn’t a specific law, there is a general “conspiracy to commit” law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_conspiracy ), which i…

I guess my confusion here is why stalkers aren’t arrested for intent to commit assault or murder in a similar way, I mean, this guy intended to help terrorists but he was largely doing this through otherwise legal channels like purchasing weaponry? What if a stalker buys a weapon, repeatedly tells a victim of planned murder plots, etc?

> What if a stalker buys a weapon, repeatedly tells a victim of planned murder plots, etc?

They're probably still committing a crime. The thing with terrorism vs stalking though, is the budgets that are being spent on preventing them. It's also the level of Law Enforcement that does the investigation. Local PD is much less capable and has much less man power than the FBI.

Also, in case of 'tells a victim of planned murder plots' this often happens in person with no record existing. This happens about as often as fake victims saying someone is threatening them. So it's hard to judge whether any report of death threats from a stalker is real.

I've personally worked on stalking cases and until you've got actual irrefutable evidence of a stalker having made threats, it's always a gamble. Even letters and messages are being faked by pretend victims. Overreaction by local PD, without evidence, is how people get shot when they get swatted.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#104

Post by Jerrrry »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #99
r3trohack3r wrote: post #95

I have second hand knowledge of lawsuits that have been dropped by the FBI during discovery because it would require them revealing zero days they have on Tor. Recently this has started getting increasing levels of press exposure[1] including in CSAM cases. The FBI has also continued to run CSAM websites after takeover to collect intel, and likely run honeypots for other content. If your adversary is a state actor, p…

Is there really any way to hide from a motivated state actor? Asking about it on HN is definitely not one. Relevant xkcd: 538 [1] [1] https://xkcd.com/538/

No.

Which is why Agora marketplace, digital lawyers, and a slew of others have simply said:

"we no longer operate under any assumption of privacy regardless of measures taken, and have simple refused to operate on the internet any longer."

Which is what the 3 letters want, a chilling-effect to reduce their Herculean-effort to just an Athenian one.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#105

Post by CommitSyn »

seanw444 wrote: post #79
jwilk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://support.torproject.org/tbb/tbb-34/ > We configure NoScript to allow JavaScript by default in Tor Browser because many websites will not work with JavaScript disabled. Most users would give up on Tor entirely if we disabled JavaScript by default because it would cause so many problems for them.

Yikes. I thought the point of Tor was uncompromising security? This is going to bite some less-experienced people in the ass.

JavaScript used to be disabled by default but too many users were complaining about pages not working. It's not very useful if you're a CFO trying to leak financial documents to a journalist but the website won't work.

Tech-literate people use JavaScript.enabled=false in about:config.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#106

Post by Semaphor »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #65
causi wrote: post #26

I will never understand people who do illegal things over their own IP. Is it really that hard to find an open access point? Way back in the day when I torrented all my content I used a long-range wifi antenna connected to a public AP and a dedicated PC with a scrubbed drive that never connected to my home network.

Your strategy might be safer but it also shows criminal intent. Also- the secret about torrents is that nobody really gives a shit. They're more worried about pedos and terrorists.

> Also- the secret about torrents is that nobody really gives a shit.

That’s not true in some places like Germany. Just a few seconds of uploading a somewhat popular movie or porn without a VPN will get you a C&D + fees letter.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#107

Post by maxk42 »

causi wrote: post #26

I will never understand people who do illegal things over their own IP. Is it really that hard to find an open access point? Way back in the day when I torrented all my content I used a long-range wifi antenna connected to a public AP and a dedicated PC with a scrubbed drive that never connected to my home network.

>According to the complaint against him, Al-Azhari allegedly visited a dark web site that hosts “unofficial propaganda and photographs related to ISIS” multiple times on May 14, 2019.

I don't understand... how can this be illegal?

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#108

Post by Fnoord »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #98
causi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you did illegal things illegally. Yep. I said I don't understand people who do illegal things over their own connection, i.e., stupidly. And who owned the public AP? McDonald's.

McDonald's has video cameras pointing at every inch of their property 24/7. All they need is a timestamp from the AP and they'll go find your license plate in the parking lot on the surveillance tapes.

Don't use a car or your own car.

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#109

Post by [deleted] »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #99
r3trohack3r wrote: post #95

I have second hand knowledge of lawsuits that have been dropped by the FBI during discovery because it would require them revealing zero days they have on Tor. Recently this has started getting increasing levels of press exposure[1] including in CSAM cases. The FBI has also continued to run CSAM websites after takeover to collect intel, and likely run honeypots for other content. If your adversary is a state actor, p…

Is there really any way to hide from a motivated state actor? Asking about it on HN is definitely not one. Relevant xkcd: 538 [1] [1] https://xkcd.com/538/

[deleted]

Re: The FBI Identified a Tor User

#110

Post by Fnoord »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #95

I have second hand knowledge of lawsuits that have been dropped by the FBI during discovery because it would require them revealing zero days they have on Tor. Recently this has started getting increasing levels of press exposure[1] including in CSAM cases. The FBI has also continued to run CSAM websites after takeover to collect intel, and likely run honeypots for other content. If your adversary is a state actor, p…

> If you're sitting in front of a computer that you're using for something the U.S. government has significant interest in prosecuting, that device should be considered compromised and adversarial - you should act accordingly.

Yep: stop breaking the law. The vast majority the US government has significant interest in prosecuting, the general public is OK with.

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