MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max • Hacker News Board

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#221

Post by gjsman-1000 » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

optymizer wrote: post #153

dchuk wrote: post #14

It’s crazy how far ahead Apple is getting in the laptop game with these new chips. I have the first gen MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro (ok maybe they’re not winning the naming game), and it’s a perfect computer. Battery life is literally all day, every single action is instant, I have zero regard for many apps or tabs I have open. It’s just perfect. I have literally traveled with just a 30 watt anker brick for my phone…

The hardware is indeed great. The software experience is getting worse imo, particularly when upgrading. It used to be rock solid for me. The m1 worked without any issues for 2 months. I upgraded yesterday to macOS Ventura: * Upgrade finished but laptop froze. Hard reset. * On first boot, the new System Settings failed to load icons, then froze. Trying to quit it froze the OS. Hard reset. * I left the laptop plugged…

> I used to praise macOS for its stability. It's still on average very stable, but in the last ~5 years the upgrade experience has not been rock solid anymore. I must have used at least a dozen Macbook Pro/Air and Mac Pro in that time, so I know it's not just 1 buggy laptop.

If you think that is bad... don't get me started on Screen Time in macOS. It is 100% broken, in every way, for kids and adults, in the most inexplicable ways possible. [Example: The "internet filter" fails open after a few hours. You thought your 8-year-old was only on approved sites? MacOS says yes, but actually no.]

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#222

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

throwntoday wrote: post #208

gigatexal wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Software is why I am on Linux on a thinkpad. It’s fast enough. And I control everything.

As soon as Asahi gets proper GPU support I'm installing linux and relegating macOS to a tiny partition for managing my iPhone.

I’m surprised there are still people out there using their Mac to manage their iPhone.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#223

Post by garyrob » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

optymizer wrote: post #153

dchuk wrote: post #14

It’s crazy how far ahead Apple is getting in the laptop game with these new chips. I have the first gen MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro (ok maybe they’re not winning the naming game), and it’s a perfect computer. Battery life is literally all day, every single action is instant, I have zero regard for many apps or tabs I have open. It’s just perfect. I have literally traveled with just a 30 watt anker brick for my phone…

The hardware is indeed great. The software experience is getting worse imo, particularly when upgrading. It used to be rock solid for me. The m1 worked without any issues for 2 months. I upgraded yesterday to macOS Ventura: * Upgrade finished but laptop froze. Hard reset. * On first boot, the new System Settings failed to load icons, then froze. Trying to quit it froze the OS. Hard reset. * I left the laptop plugged…

My own experience is different. \Years ago I would wait at least 6 months or more before doing a mac upgrade because of the inevitable problems. With Ventura I didn't even wait for the first point release, and had no problems whatsoever. (I did have two complete backups handy just in case.)

I'm not invaliding your experience, just mentioning that others have different experiences.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#224

Post by middle-marathon » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

selectodude wrote: post #87

wrldos wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah likely but the thing is that Apple prices never go down even if the exchange rate becomes favourable.

I can't think of a single currency that has been strengthening against the dollar in the last fifteen years.

CHF

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#225

Post by sod » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #100

jchw wrote: post #34

It's worrying that they are shying away from specifying generational improvements or at least comparing to it's competitors. The "fastest Intel MacBook" is not really the competitor for an M2 MacBook Pro, it's a predecessor. But I'd rather hear about generational improvements from M1, especially because both Intel and AMD seem to be making great strides in the low power space lately.

It's no secret that Apple's M2 series processors are a pretty minor improvement over the M1 series. Expect much bigger improvements in the M3 series which will likely be using TSMC's 3nm process (and then probably only minor improvements again for the M4 series). It seems that Apple's ridiculously impressive consistent year-on-year gains up the M1 were in large part possible because they were behind the state of the…

Yes, the year over year improvements were 90% just the tsmc node changes. But the ridiculous (and IMO amazing) performance per watt is a mix of iOS/macOS and their chip design. Those efficiency cores are unmatched, paired with the right scheduling from the OS.

The M2 is underwhelming as its the same 5nm as the M1 was.

But rumors say the M2 pro and max are on the 3nm node. And it took so long for the release, as 3nm was delayed.

Apple has a monopoly right now on 3nm, which is a shame. But if we only got tsmc to fire on all cylinders because apple stuffed them with money, then so be it.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#226

Post by toyg » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #118

_fzslm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTerm2 and lima [1] with a ARM64 Linux virtual machine w/ Rosetta (so I can still run x86_64 Linux code!) enabled me to fall in love with my MacBook Pro in this regard. i feel more productive than on a Linux machine now. MacOS is not without its developer power tools, if you dig around enough! [1] https://github.com/lima-vm/lima

For me MacBookPro with M2 chips would be perfect if the 13in model allowed 64GB RAM. My workflow requires me to run Docker (intel images) heavily with several containers. Having a virtualization layer is pretty resource consuming. Usually the Docker + containers I use take around 5GB RAM alone. Under that configuration I've found 32GB to be just within the limit of usability. 16GB are just not enough. Also, for some…

Chances are Docker would be a dog on that 2011 too, if you were on MacOS. I honestly don't know how Docker got so popular when it sucks so much on anything that is not Linux.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#227

Post by gwbas1c » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

jchw wrote: post #34

It's worrying that they are shying away from specifying generational improvements or at least comparing to it's competitors. The "fastest Intel MacBook" is not really the competitor for an M2 MacBook Pro, it's a predecessor. But I'd rather hear about generational improvements from M1, especially because both Intel and AMD seem to be making great strides in the low power space lately.

I didn't buy an M1 because I didn't want the "first" Apple processor. Maybe it's just my bias from seeing lots of Intel competitors come-and-go? I don't really care about specific improvements, I just want all the minor things that the engineers didn't get to finish the first time around.

In my case, living in the US, we all do our taxes in the first three-ish months of the year. Last year Turbo Tax told me they wouldn't support my 2013 MBP this tax season, so I decided to wait until fall 2022 and get whatever Apple released. Fall 2022 came without a release, so I've been biting my nails: Turbo Tax won't run on my MBP, and I don't want to upgrade to an "outdated" M1.

(As you can infer, I'm planning on using my next MBP for ~10 years.)

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#228

Post by dbbk » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #43

boplicity wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple laptops unfortunately give me severe eye strain and headaches; I don't know why. I'm on a laptop with a beautiful OLED screen now, and my eyes are much, much happier. I would switch back to Apple if they offered OLED. I doubt they will, though. They're keen on mini-led, which is inferior in my opinion.

I think they're aiming for micro-led, which is basically the same as OLED but not using inorganic LEDs so they don't degrade. They're using mini-led as a stop-gap.

The Mini-LED screen is not great though. Sometimes I actually miss LCD. The brightness isn't uniform (it vignettes towards the edge), and you get lighting artefacts when quickly switching from a black screen (eg switching tabs).

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#229

Post by throwaway2037 » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

jackosdev wrote: post #88

gnufied wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have both a latest generation Thinkpad P1 Gen5 and Macbook Pro 16 inch M1 pro and while it is true that Macbook comes pretty close to being a perfect laptop, I still miss the productivity of a Linux laptop (for backend dev work). From what hardware POV you are correct, I wish though Apple would adopt Carbon Magnesium chasis that thinkpad uses. For same 16inch size, Thinkpad is noticeably lighter. I can happy lug my…

I have Asahi Linux installed on mine, it works great including the GPU, I’m mainly developing for ARM64 AWS Lambdas now as well so it’s nice having the same arch. Some things are still missing like webcam, microphone and speakers, but the headphone Jack works and Bluetooth is OK just a bit choppy, incredible project.

I know this isn't an Asahi Linux thread, but I cannot help to ask about it. Plus I am big fan of Alyssa Rosenzweig's work (and Justine Tunney), so I pay close attention to Asahi Linux (and LibCosmo/politan) progress.

First, it's great to hear from Real World people like you about their Asahi Linux experience. It sounds like the baseline is done and now they will pick away at the remaining pieces.

Real question: What is the driver for Asahi Linux to exist at all? Please don't think I am trolling when I ask this question. At 10,000ft, any sane person would say: "Why? It's Apple. Let them do them: Mac OS X." I expect Asahi Linux folks to reply: "Well, duh: Because."

Is it unlocking the insane performance per watt of Apple Mx chips for Linux?

Is it enabling the world's greatest laptops for Linux?

Is it the pure technical challenge of reverse engineering a closed hardware system?

Is it everything?

I am really curious to hear what people think.

Re: MacBook Pro featuring M2 Pro and M2 Max

#230

Post by kube-system » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

randomopining wrote: post #164

moonchrome wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about throwing some last gen parts into an old tower/PSU I have to build a desktop for inlaws since they are stuck on a 10year old hand down laptop. This is a good package at that price (599$) - power consumption is likely nothing, MacOS included in price, small and quiet - will comfortably browse the internet, play videos, etc. for the next 5+ years. I won't be able to repair it out of warranty so tha…

Is this thing actually faster than a cheap Ryzen build for browsing? Like a 5600g that are super cheap now

Apples M chips are stupid fast at browsing the web because they have some native CPU instructions for JavaScript that x86_64 chips don’t.