PHP in 2023 • Hacker News Board

Re: PHP in 2023

#101

Post by spiderfarmer » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:08 PM UTC

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

I'm rebuilding an old online community / forum in the TALL stack. It's awesome. I do have to do a lot of raw sql query building to keep it performant though.

Re: PHP in 2023

#102

Post by oblio » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

smarkov wrote: post #27

aurbano wrote: post #9

PHP was my first language back when I was a teenager in highschool - it all started because I wanted to get some data from users and store it (I just knew basic HTML and CSS back then), when a friend mentioned he used a PHP snippet to send an email from a website. That sounded like magic to me so I bought a book on PHP and my mind was blown by the possibilities. Several websites and years later I had a pretty good un…

> with no CI/build/deploy issues I miss those days. I think the amount of front end building we do for the web nowadays is absurd. We transpile everything - JS, CSS HTML, and then we bundle them in odd ways to circumvent all kinds of issues. The way we make webpages is so disconnected from the technologies that browsers offer us. Makes you wonder when people are going to realize that we're way past serving static pag…

> we just need a better way to run actual applications in the browser.

That's not going to happen. It's been tried, and it's almost always proprietary.

So it isn't really adopted.

WASM might be "it", but in that case, you're still compiling/building stuff :-)

Re: PHP in 2023

#103

Post by waffl » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

What really struck me was the statement: "In total, $580,000 was raised in 2022 The Foundation pays 6 developers to work on PHP" which made me realise how easy it is to take for granted the development and maintenance of these open-source languages and ecosystem as a whole.

Say what you will about PHP, but we all rest on the shoulders of the incalculable effort that goes into the software we use everyday without thinking twice, and is something I'm very grateful for.

Re: PHP in 2023

#104

Post by i386 » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

stemc43 wrote: post #32

These days - I use swoole/openswoole with any PHP project. it brings connection pooling, async, concurrency, event loop, io parallelization and much much more.

Just getting into openswoole myself. Are you using any db pooling with laravel? At the moment I’m solving this with proxysql and MySQL sockets.

Re: PHP in 2023

#105

Post by oblio » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:12 PM UTC

makeitdouble wrote: post #88

GeneralTspoon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, This is your issue - PHP Modern PHP (with a framework like Laravel or Symfony) is probably one of the most productive ways to build web applications. > It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. This is definitely an interesting take... Python hasn't even solved package management yet. And the 2.7 => 3 migration is probably the most famous example of maki…

I'm on PHP 8 and I feel the same as parent. Sure, there's been a lot of progress since the PHP 5 days, but the core of the language has been left mostly untouched by design, and we haven't seen the kind of drastic moves like JS moving to ES6 syntax. It's a matter of taste, so there's no absolutr truth. I hate PHP's function and property access syntax differenciation and wildly prefer ruby's approach or instance. And…

Maybe PHP can add a "stricter" mode that gets rid of all the cruft? Enable it per-file, allow it to simmer for 10 years, remove legacy support in PHP 12.

Re: PHP in 2023

#106

Post by waffl » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:12 PM UTC

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

Also inertia.js just reached 1.0 and has been really fantastic to work with.

Re: PHP in 2023

#107

Post by tasuki » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:12 PM UTC

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

> [Laravel]'s the greatest web framework to ever exists

Back when I worked with PHP, we used Symfony and several coworkers very much looked down on Laravel. Symfony was modular and you could easily switch whichever component for your own by just implementing the interface and overriding the dependency injection thing. Word was that Laravel hardcoded many things and was less customisable.

What is your take on this? In what way is Laravel superior to Symfony?

Re: PHP in 2023

#108

Post by clementai » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:13 PM UTC

zeptonix wrote: post #82

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

Just to offer an alternate opinion for anyone reading -- check out Next.js

Next.js is great but can't compare to Laravel, they are not for the same use case. Laravel comes with an ORM, a job queue, a mail framework... And it can also scaffold a complete auth system for you

Re: PHP in 2023

#109

Post by philipwhiuk » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:13 PM UTC

GeneralTspoon wrote: post #71

zeptonix wrote: post #36

I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, but even though I'm sure this will be downvoted, it's really sad people still take it seriously as a language in 2023. There's nothing remotely elegant about it. It's not expressive or programmatically succinct in the way Ruby is. It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. It's not fast and modern in the way Rust is. It's not elegant or composable or client…

> I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, This is your issue - PHP Modern PHP (with a framework like Laravel or Symfony) is probably one of the most productive ways to build web applications. > It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. This is definitely an interesting take... Python hasn't even solved package management yet. And the 2.7 => 3 migration is probably the most famous example of maki…

> No more random scattering of SQL statements in HTML files!

And yet you will still find this, because the long-tail of bad PHP is near infinite.

> although ideally all code from the 5.3 era should be burned at the stake

I guarantee you that a decent amount of real PHP coding right now is maintaining legacy stuff, not the new fangled 8.

It is, of course, the same in the Java world - most of the day job is not using Java 17. It's just that Java 6 code forced onto Java 8 isn't as bad as PHP 4 code hacked into PHP 5 code still struggling along in PHP 9. (Especially because as a scripting language, it will more likely fail at runtime, not build-time).

Re: PHP in 2023

#110

Post by BuckyBeaver » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 1:13 PM UTC

impulser_ wrote: post #56

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO. The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the…

Looking at the Laravel site, I’m concerned about Laravel’s reliance on an ORM. Not only because ORMs are widely derided, but because I have a legacy MySQL DB and PHP 5 project I want to resurrect. I’m down to rewrite the server, but how do I restore a database full of user data with Laravel?