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PHP in 2023

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Re: PHP in 2023

#51

Post by zeptonix »

mariusor wrote: post #43
zeptonix wrote: post #36

I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, but even though I'm sure this will be downvoted, it's really sad people still take it seriously as a language in 2023. There's nothing remotely elegant about it. It's not expressive or programmatically succinct in the way Ruby is. It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. It's not fast and modern in the way Rust is. It's not elegant or composable or client…

Sorry to be dismissive, but elegance, expressiveness or succinctness are not mandatory for "making things". Gatekeeping a programming language on esthetics is quite shallow in my opinion. Ease of use and deployment, breadth, availability, low cost of maintaining, are sometimes more important, and PHP offers plenty of value in these respects. I don't want to work with it, but I will never presume to look down on peopl…

Yeah I do agree it was a stepping-stone in many ways.

Re: PHP in 2023

#52

Post by ryangjchandler »

muglug wrote: post #37
Wulfheart wrote: post #4

[dead]

Both of those are currently hobbyist projects. They may develop further and become useful to the average PHP dev, but they're definitely not there yet.

Yeah, Matt is absolutely right. I'm working on PXP as a passion project, something that I've been trying to do over the last year or so and only started to invest serious time into the last couple of months.

The goal isn't to completely replace PHP but to complement it. You can think of it like a playground for future PHP syntax. Something could be added to PXP and released in a week, PHP on the other hand has 1 big release a year. If something is successful and widely used in PXP, then it could be a contender for PHP core.

Re: PHP in 2023

#53

Post by archerx »

oslac wrote: post #34

Why would a new project in 2023 choose PHP over anything else (modern Java, Kotlin, C#, etc.)?

Why would anyone in 2023 use Java or choose to be locked into Microsoft?

Re: PHP in 2023

#55

Post by zeptonix »

nattaylor wrote: post #44
zeptonix wrote: post #36

I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, but even though I'm sure this will be downvoted, it's really sad people still take it seriously as a language in 2023. There's nothing remotely elegant about it. It's not expressive or programmatically succinct in the way Ruby is. It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. It's not fast and modern in the way Rust is. It's not elegant or composable or client…

I might be misinterpreting "taken seriously" with utility, but to me it is very valuable that a PHP script can just be dropped on almost any web server and it can start doing stuff, and that alone is reason enough not to not dismiss it.

Kinda, you have to make sure all the extensions you need are installed, then fix php.ini so it's not doing anything wrong, and then it usually works if you haven't missed anything, until something becomes deprecated.

Re: PHP in 2023

#56

Post by impulser_ »

If you are thinking about building a web application, take a look at Laravel. I not a huge PHP user, but Laravel is always on the top of my list for building web applications. It's the greatest web framework to ever exists, even better than Rails IMHO.

The ecosystem around Laravel is really incredible and unlike any other framework. They have libraries for every stage of a web application from taking payments all the way down to server management and hosting.

They even have awesome libraries like Inertia which are built for Laravel but can be used with other frameworks.

It's the only reason I still stay fresh on my PHP.

Re: PHP in 2023

#57

Post by krapp »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #7
Wulfheart wrote: post #4

[dead]

What's the point? You can use types in the vast majority of places in PHP and it works well, so I don't really see the point of that instead of contributing to the native typing system.

Javascript already set the precedent. If you don't like the way a language works, it's preferable to have a proxy language that does work the way you want that compiles to it, rather than accept the language for what it is and learn to work with it.

Re: PHP in 2023

#58

Post by koonsolo »

archerx wrote: post #45
zeptonix wrote: post #36

I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, but even though I'm sure this will be downvoted, it's really sad people still take it seriously as a language in 2023. There's nothing remotely elegant about it. It's not expressive or programmatically succinct in the way Ruby is. It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. It's not fast and modern in the way Rust is. It's not elegant or composable or client…

I’ve made a few “serious” projects with PHP and has been great, I never feel like I’m fighting against it to do what I need to do, the code can be very concise, its very fast and has a lot of batteries builtin. Python is not beautifully well thought out, the syntax is awful and the version conflicts make it a mess. You’re comparing to React which is not a language or in the same domain is confusing and makes me doubt…

> Your comparing to React which is not a language or in the same domain is confusing and makes me doubt your credibility.

They both render HTML and do it in a very different way.

Re: PHP in 2023

#59

Post by whitepaint »

zeptonix wrote: post #36

I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, but even though I'm sure this will be downvoted, it's really sad people still take it seriously as a language in 2023. There's nothing remotely elegant about it. It's not expressive or programmatically succinct in the way Ruby is. It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. It's not fast and modern in the way Rust is. It's not elegant or composable or client…

Someone who worked with Python / Django and JAVA / Spring for years professionally, I see PHP / Laravel as absolute superior way to build web apps, especially if you are in a team and people might come and go.

Re: PHP in 2023

#60

Post by Shish2k »

zeptonix wrote: post #36

I used to work way back in the day on PHP too, but even though I'm sure this will be downvoted, it's really sad people still take it seriously as a language in 2023. There's nothing remotely elegant about it. It's not expressive or programmatically succinct in the way Ruby is. It's not beautifully well thought-out the way Python is. It's not fast and modern in the way Rust is. It's not elegant or composable or client…

I agree with all of those points, except that it does have one thing going for it - it is easy for end-users to deploy PHP apps: FTP your files onto any random cheapo shared web-host, done.

I’m amazed that it’s been so long and no other language comes close to that :(

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