Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

en.wikipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 115 posts

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#11

Post by akolbe »

blhblah12345 wrote: post #4

[flagged]

You're right, in a way, to call it brainwashing. But seen from another perspective, people living under authoritarian regimes simply think practically. They are aware of the acute danger to themselves and their families – all the more so as they can't just up sticks and go to live in San Francisco if they don't like it any more. The freedom of speech that only exists elsewhere might just as well not exist, and they're often tied to their country. One particularly discouraging aspect of these sentences is that they often include a long travel ban, to start upon release from prison.

For refugees I'd guess it takes a long time for them to feel safe and for the established patterns of thought to "thaw".

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#12

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

blhblah12345 wrote: post #10
za3faran wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The things that keep the west alive are abstract, unfathomable concepts to the Ummah. As a Muslim, this is so incorrect to the point of almost absurdity. Just because you have encountered one person who appeared to you that he did not understand or comprehend a certain topic you were explaining, does not mean that the rest of the Muslims are the same. I can point you to many many youtube channels (just as an exampl…

"One person" Like I said I've been in the islamic world for a decade. I've studied Arabic/Turkish music in Iran, Egypt, Turkiye, Azerbaijan, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel. It's not like "I met one muslim". I have spent about 20 hours per week for the past decade teaching Syrian and Yemeni refugees in Istanbul and Ankara. Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one? As far as I can tell this only ex…

> Just one?

Honest question, how does Jordan fare in democracy?

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#13

Post by __derek__ »

blhblah12345 wrote: post #10
za3faran wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The things that keep the west alive are abstract, unfathomable concepts to the Ummah. As a Muslim, this is so incorrect to the point of almost absurdity. Just because you have encountered one person who appeared to you that he did not understand or comprehend a certain topic you were explaining, does not mean that the rest of the Muslims are the same. I can point you to many many youtube channels (just as an exampl…

"One person" Like I said I've been in the islamic world for a decade. I've studied Arabic/Turkish music in Iran, Egypt, Turkiye, Azerbaijan, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel. It's not like "I met one muslim". I have spent about 20 hours per week for the past decade teaching Syrian and Yemeni refugees in Istanbul and Ankara. Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one? As far as I can tell this only ex…

> Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one?

Indonesia and Malaysia, for two.

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#14

Post by rockinghigh »

blhblah12345 wrote: post #4

[flagged]

It sounds like you're generalizing from a couple of conversations. The Arab Spring of 2010-2012 started because citizens in the Arab world wanted more freedoms. The idea that citizens in Tunisia, Egypt, or Syria are "intellectually incapable of understanding" the idea of freedom of speech is insulting.

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#15

Post by blhblah12345 »

__derek__ wrote: post #13
blhblah12345 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One person" Like I said I've been in the islamic world for a decade. I've studied Arabic/Turkish music in Iran, Egypt, Turkiye, Azerbaijan, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel. It's not like "I met one muslim". I have spent about 20 hours per week for the past decade teaching Syrian and Yemeni refugees in Istanbul and Ankara. Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one? As far as I can tell this only ex…

> Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one? Indonesia and Malaysia, for two.

[flagged]

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#16

Post by IAmGraydon »

__derek__ wrote: post #13
blhblah12345 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One person" Like I said I've been in the islamic world for a decade. I've studied Arabic/Turkish music in Iran, Egypt, Turkiye, Azerbaijan, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel. It's not like "I met one muslim". I have spent about 20 hours per week for the past decade teaching Syrian and Yemeni refugees in Istanbul and Ankara. Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one? As far as I can tell this only ex…

> Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one? Indonesia and Malaysia, for two.

Indonesia is not an Islamic nation even though a majority of its population is Islamic and there is some influence of Islam in their politics.

Malaysia is, as you stated, an Islamic nation. It is not secular, however, as they consider Islam to be their official religion.

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#17

Post by blhblah12345 »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #12
blhblah12345 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"One person" Like I said I've been in the islamic world for a decade. I've studied Arabic/Turkish music in Iran, Egypt, Turkiye, Azerbaijan, Lebanon, Jordan and Israel. It's not like "I met one muslim". I have spent about 20 hours per week for the past decade teaching Syrian and Yemeni refugees in Istanbul and Ankara. Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one? As far as I can tell this only ex…

> Just one? Honest question, how does Jordan fare in democracy?

You should ask the king that question.

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#18

Post by nickff »

rockinghigh wrote: post #14
blhblah12345 wrote: post #4

[flagged]

It sounds like you're generalizing from a couple of conversations. The Arab Spring of 2010-2012 started because citizens in the Arab world wanted more freedoms. The idea that citizens in Tunisia, Egypt, or Syria are "intellectually incapable of understanding" the idea of freedom of speech is insulting.

"Unfathomable" is very different from "intellectually incapable of understanding". You're arguing against a straw-man of your own making.

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#19

Post by AdrianB1 »

blhblah12345 wrote: post #4

[flagged]

My parents lived in Jordan (as expats) for over 30 years. Back in 1980, Jordan was a very modern country and had great rulers, my father was in good relations with one of the king's sons (I don't remember which one) and he met the king several times, he was speaking highly about them and he considered Jordan one of the most modern and free Muslim countries.

At the same time, rights and freedoms are limited in most of the world, not just in the Muslim countries. There is no first amendment anywhere outside USA, there is no second anywhere else, even in Europe the rights and freedoms are very limited. For example there is something similar to 1st amendment in the Romanian Constitution, but you can still go to jail just for opinions, while in UK even for thoughts (recent event confirms that). I would not bash the Muslim countries for brainwashing, everyone is doing it.

Re: Wikipedia editors serving long sentences in Saudi Arabia since 2020

#20

Post by blhblah12345 »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #16
__derek__ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please point me to a democratic, secular islamic nation. Just one? Indonesia and Malaysia, for two.

Indonesia is not an Islamic nation even though a majority of its population is Islamic and there is some influence of Islam in their politics. Malaysia is, as you stated, an Islamic nation. It is not secular, however, as they consider Islam to be their official religion.

How is Indonesia not an Islamic nation when now several of its provinces are legally ruled by shariah law interpreted by mullahs, not by representatives or leaders elected by the people, and when the government makes federal (parliamentary?) laws enforcing various muslim beliefs and laws?
Post reply on HN