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Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

knowablemagazine.org

31–40 of 494 posts

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#31
post #20

For our house, a ground loop heat pump would be best. A long slit trench, with the slinky style of coolant loop, in the back yard (away from utilities) could easily handle all our waste heat in the summer and source heat in the winter.

Wouldn't it be cheaper/easier to dig a well, fill it with tubing, and pouring concrete all over? The concrete being the constant-ish temperature heat reservoir ?

Would concrete have sufficient thermal conductivity compared to damp soil?

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#32

In 2017 we installed a very efficient air-source heat pump and solar panels. My electrical utility offers 1:1 buyback of electricity so I am able to build up a credit in the summer and run the heat pump well into the fall and winter on that surplus. The system is sized for cooling the house which means that it is undersized for heating, but during cool fall and spring temperatures it operates satisfactorily as a heat…

Still waiting for one of these people who rave about their heat pump system to actually rely on it full time without a backup. Most folks could barely afford to replace an existing furnace in a place that has all the fixtures installed, much less pay to install a second one based on different setup, and then pay for maintaining two systems on top of everything else. It is absurd to think that this is a plausible way…

I live in the snowy Great Lakes and I rely on a ground source heat pump and hot water heater full time. No issues at all. Cost similar to a high end gas furnace system when the tax credits were applied. Probably cheaper with air source systems today.

I live in the city and don't lose power, but I'm hoping to eventually use a EV as a battery backup when the equipment is available and standards are finalized.

A battery in a compact like the Chevy Bolt could power my heating system for several days.

It's not like modern gas furnaces don't require power to operate. In a recent Buffalo blizzard power went out and many people with gas heating still froze and had their pipes burst.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#33

Why can’t my whole home participate in this technology? It would seem an ok fit for things like freezers, refrigerators, hot water heaters, etc. When it’s freezing cold outside, it seems crazy that I warm the air of my house and then use electricity to keep the fridge cooler than the air I just heated. Someone needs to make a standard for moving heat/cool through all appliances in a house…

Your fridge is already doing it. It's heating your house

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#34

In 2017 we installed a very efficient air-source heat pump and solar panels. My electrical utility offers 1:1 buyback of electricity so I am able to build up a credit in the summer and run the heat pump well into the fall and winter on that surplus. The system is sized for cooling the house which means that it is undersized for heating, but during cool fall and spring temperatures it operates satisfactorily as a heat…

Still waiting for one of these people who rave about their heat pump system to actually rely on it full time without a backup. Most folks could barely afford to replace an existing furnace in a place that has all the fixtures installed, much less pay to install a second one based on different setup, and then pay for maintaining two systems on top of everything else. It is absurd to think that this is a plausible way…

If gas remains expensive in Europe, it won't be absurd, so much as an economic no brainer to have a air to air heat pump, alongside a back up gas boiler. This should happen pretty quickly as renewables take off, and gas is no longer needed for electricity generation when the wind is blowing.

At some point a bit further on, the backup can be simple direct electric heating.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#35

Why can’t my whole home participate in this technology? It would seem an ok fit for things like freezers, refrigerators, hot water heaters, etc. When it’s freezing cold outside, it seems crazy that I warm the air of my house and then use electricity to keep the fridge cooler than the air I just heated. Someone needs to make a standard for moving heat/cool through all appliances in a house…

The fridge is heating your home, so that reduces the burden on whatever is heating your home. The coil on the back gets hot.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#36

In 2017 we installed a very efficient air-source heat pump and solar panels. My electrical utility offers 1:1 buyback of electricity so I am able to build up a credit in the summer and run the heat pump well into the fall and winter on that surplus. The system is sized for cooling the house which means that it is undersized for heating, but during cool fall and spring temperatures it operates satisfactorily as a heat…

Still waiting for one of these people who rave about their heat pump system to actually rely on it full time without a backup. Most folks could barely afford to replace an existing furnace in a place that has all the fixtures installed, much less pay to install a second one based on different setup, and then pay for maintaining two systems on top of everything else. It is absurd to think that this is a plausible way…

I know a couple of people who rely on a ground source heat pump without a backup in Europe. They also both have induction hobs as it happens!

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#37
post #28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fridge isn't the biggest energy hog in the house, but I'm very sympathetic to the absurdity of heat levels in a house. I often see my HVAC cooling when the set-point temperature is actually _higher_ than the outside temperature. Logically, the house is a heat generator, it makes sense physically. The roof is black, etc. It would offer a good number of benefits if the system could outright open a duct to the outdo…

I've often wondered if opening windows while AC is running and outside temp is below inside temp is less efficient than keeping them closed. My thought is I should keep them closed due to extra load on the AC to dehumidify the outside air. Or open windows and turn AC to fan-only mode to prevent stagnant air in rooms without windows.

Unless you have a very strange setup, centralized A/C does not have humidity sensors nor run just to dehumidify. Nor does removing humidity increase the load on the A/C system. Removing humidity is just a happy by-product of how centralized A/C works. So no, you would not be increasing load for that reason.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#38

Half way through the article the author is touting how these can work in cold climates like Norway, then their example homeowner immediately states they have this but also they still have a furnace for when it actually is cold. Why do journalists try to pull crap like this? Contradictory information in the same paragraph!? If you have to have a backup it is _not_ a replacement and it will not get us off of carbon. Mo…

If you read the article carefully, it notes that part of the problem in some colder climates is a lack of home insulation. Norwegian homes are well-insulated and therefore very suitable for heat pumps. The home owner with the furnace was US-based, by the way.

The author is not "pulling crap" because they point out the real experience of Norwegian home owners while also describing the diversity of heat pump installations and outcomes.

They're actually being very honest.

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#39
post #28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fridge isn't the biggest energy hog in the house, but I'm very sympathetic to the absurdity of heat levels in a house. I often see my HVAC cooling when the set-point temperature is actually _higher_ than the outside temperature. Logically, the house is a heat generator, it makes sense physically. The roof is black, etc. It would offer a good number of benefits if the system could outright open a duct to the outdo…

I've often wondered if opening windows while AC is running and outside temp is below inside temp is less efficient than keeping them closed. My thought is I should keep them closed due to extra load on the AC to dehumidify the outside air. Or open windows and turn AC to fan-only mode to prevent stagnant air in rooms without windows.

Is the AC dehumidifier an extra feature/task, so actively followed, or is it doing dehumidification just as a byproduct happening while cooling?

Re: Heat pumps of the 1800s are becoming the technology of the future

#40
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems crazy that I warm the air of my house and then use electricity to keep the fridge cooler than the air I just heated The fridge is simply moving a little of the warmth in your room out of its box, and adding a little more warmth to the room in the process. You lose no heat from the room, which is what matters, really. It would be worse to dump the heat outside! At least in winter. The heat has to be removed…

I always joke that in winter all appliances are 100% efficient (I know they're not). Some look at me funny but the ones who pay the gas bill get usually get it.

And incandescent light bulbs!
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