Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle • Hacker News Board

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#231

Post by michaelteter » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 10:49 AM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #209

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So much of our intellectual and financial energy seems to be directed toward overclocking the horse and buggy I don't personally think it's realistic to expect everybody/all people (who mainly work for a living/work hard) to ask them to give up the luxury of spending their hard earned money on being able to transport themselves (to and from their job) in something other than the comfort of their own car. I think yo…

Not to mention that public transport doesn't go everywhere. Even places with healthy and robust public transit networks only reach a subset of a metro area, and only a subset of that has routes that stop with acceptable frequency. I think the answer lies in things like e-bikes, mopeds, and motorcycles. Rail as a high-speed backbone and an e-bike for last-mile sounds close to ideal - especially if I can charge the bik…

Fortunately more cities are starting to experiment with car-free zones, and they are making shared or subscription bikes (e-bikes often, at least in hilly places) more common. People in those areas report being much happier, and actual communities seem to begin to form as there are more people crossing each others' paths on a regular basis.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#232

Post by michaelteter » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 10:56 AM UTC

landemva wrote: post #205

sagarm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society has made the choice so far to make owning a car as convenient and inexpensive as possible, while allocating almost no resources to other options. And no, usage fees including gas taxes don't cover the cost of roads -- let alone the land usage, externalities, and supporting infrastructure like drainage.

> Society has made Big eu cities are expensive to park cars. Not inexpensive. Some cities such as Stockholm are banning commuter cars.

HN has a pretty strong majority of US readers, I think. And as I'm American, I recall that many other Americans have little idea what life is really like outside the country. (What goes on day to day, or how life works, in other countries is just not well understood.)

From the US-centric view, society (or rather, energy and automotive companies and their lobbying) has made the decision to put all the focus on cars, and to even put intentional negative spin against public transport.

It seems to be slowly changing in some states or a few cities within some states. And yes, it does seem to be very different depending on which way an area leans politically. The "red" (Republican) areas are vehemently against public transport and frame it as the government trying to take away people's rights to go where they want (in their own cars).

Unfortunately for the areas trying to put energy into public transport and non-car alternatives, there is a vast amount of corporate finance and influence that works against it at all levels of govenerment.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#233

Post by michaelteter » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 10:59 AM UTC

philshem wrote: post #54

hammock wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That electric car is still creating a lot of particulate pollution from the tires on the road And brake dust, which includes a lot of metal

One-pedal driving does minimize the use of the brakes by using the motor to decelerate. I can’t find an English wiki article, but here is German https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-Pedal-Driving

Regenerative braking, I think you mean?

It's definitely preferable to grinding brakes to slow the vehicle both because of the reduced wear/pollution and extended range gained from the small bit of charging that occurs.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#234

Post by michaelteter » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 11:09 AM UTC

xracy wrote: post #213

JimtheCoder wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, my time in my car is some of the only pure "me" time I have, and I would hazard a guess that it is the same for many others. A car to me is a personal, climate controlled cocoon, where I can turn on whatever music I want, have a coffee or a snack, and escape for the 30 minutes or however long it takes to reach my destination...without the chance of being bothered by anyone else, much less any of the other…

Okay, but what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I get it might not be exactly the same, but walking/biking/Public Transiting with headphones in for a period of time is all that and more. And with the exception of a bike, you can do all of those things without having to sit in traffic...

> Okay, but what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft?

This would probably make some people uncomfortable, but one fantasy I can imagine which might be nice is to have private transport capsules. We could own our own capsule and decorate/style it to our liking. It has common exterior form factor, with power, plumbing, etc. connectors.

We go from home to the nearest capsule station (where ours is in automated storage). We schedule picking of the capsule so it is ready for us upon our arrival. We set the destination, hop in, and the delivery system takes us for a ride. Hell, with a nice private capsule you could sleep, watch movies, work, even have "fun" with a partner. The system (ideally) ensures you arrive at your desired capsule station end point, whereby you exit and set your storage option.

This would take more space than current public transport (a lot more!), but it would take less space than a typical individual car, not to mention less roads as the exchange systems would be optimized and operating in three dimensions.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#235

Post by bluGill » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 1:21 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #219

bluGill wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the better the resale, the nicer the car you can afford to replace it. Most new cars are kept for 3 years and traded in, (or leased) so the better the resale the more money to put into your next car. Or if you lease the less your lease will be. Those who buy used cars keep their cars longer, and are willing to pay more for a car they think will last longer.

Why not just get a much nicer and reliable car and keep it for 10-15 years?

The type of people who do that save money buy buying a 3 year old car. The people who buy new cars mostly wouldn't be seen in an older car.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#236

Post by MrMan » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 2:13 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #114

michaelteter wrote: post #32

For occasional commutes, 115km one way is ok (not for me, but it's not unthinkable). But 115km each way (230km round trip) 5 days per week is a problem. We should not be doing this, at least not in individual cars. That electric car is still creating a lot of particulate pollution from the tires on the road, not to mention its contribution to general traffic. The focus should be on how to reduce the commute distance…

> So much of our intellectual and financial energy seems to be directed toward overclocking the horse and buggy I don't personally think it's realistic to expect everybody/all people (who mainly work for a living/work hard) to ask them to give up the luxury of spending their hard earned money on being able to transport themselves (to and from their job) in something other than the comfort of their own car. I think yo…

this is an argument from 1985. there is no room for this kind of selfish thinking now

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#237

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 2:34 PM UTC

michaelteter wrote: post #230

TeMPOraL wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I think GP's point is that it's more about space than about travel. Walking, or being on a public transport with headphones on, doesn't replace that - it's at most a very poor substitute. The point is to be able to hide from other people - to have some minimum personal time, in a personal space, free from nagging and expectations of your sp…

This still smells like some greater problem. If retreating into our own private cars, solo, is the only way we can get some solitude and space from others, then we have painted ourselves into a corner. Long ago I briefly shared an office with an "old guy" - an expert in a particular topic which gave him more freedom to behave strangely and not get fired. His strange behavior was to spend half of his lunch hour at his…

I agree with your points - though I think you're underselling the "even if it seems scary" bit.

I love your bathroom example, because it speaks to the same need as the "car commute solo space". You say:

> it is conceivable that I could have just gathered everyone and made some agreements about what we all need, including sometimes privacy and quiet

And the same is be true of me (having small children too), and of the aforementioned commuters. We could. But, for some reason, we don't. Can't explain it, but the very idea feels truly scary. That's why the comment upthread resonated so well with me - I don't drive, but I understand striving to get "solo time" in a way that doesn't have to be justified directly, but instead is a plausibly deniable side effect of some external necessity (like having to commute to work).

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#238

Post by rad_gruchalski » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 2:49 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #226

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company cars in Belgium starting from this year have to be phev or ev. No more diesel or gasoline.

As in, new cars that companies buy from this year, right? If your company already owns a diesel vehicle it can be still used, correct?

Yes, from this year and applies to new vehicles allocated to employees. Companies generally lease or long term rent in Belgium. What I hear, people are now replacing their car parks.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#239

Post by dagw » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 2:54 PM UTC

michaelteter wrote: post #231

yellowapple wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that public transport doesn't go everywhere. Even places with healthy and robust public transit networks only reach a subset of a metro area, and only a subset of that has routes that stop with acceptable frequency. I think the answer lies in things like e-bikes, mopeds, and motorcycles. Rail as a high-speed backbone and an e-bike for last-mile sounds close to ideal - especially if I can charge the bik…

Fortunately more cities are starting to experiment with car-free zones, and they are making shared or subscription bikes (e-bikes often, at least in hilly places) more common. People in those areas report being much happier, and actual communities seem to begin to form as there are more people crossing each others' paths on a regular basis.

For me the weakness with public transport isn't so much getting around in the city (I basically never drive in the city), as it is getting out of the city. Getting to my favourite down town restaurant is 15 minutes by car or 20 minutes by public transport door to door, so I take public transport and don't have to worry about parking. Getting to my favourite hiking spot by the coast is 30 minutes by car or 2+ hours by public transport, so I take the car.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#240

Post by acdha » Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 2:57 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #239

michaelteter wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately more cities are starting to experiment with car-free zones, and they are making shared or subscription bikes (e-bikes often, at least in hilly places) more common. People in those areas report being much happier, and actual communities seem to begin to form as there are more people crossing each others' paths on a regular basis.

For me the weakness with public transport isn't so much getting around in the city (I basically never drive in the city), as it is getting out of the city. Getting to my favourite down town restaurant is 15 minutes by car or 20 minutes by public transport door to door, so I take public transport and don't have to worry about parking. Getting to my favourite hiking spot by the coast is 30 minutes by car or 2+ hours by…

I’m hoping there’ll be a more mature rental / car share market, too. It’d make a lot of sense to have no/low-car city centers (e.g. accessibility and delivery only zones, low speed limits & non-prioritized roads, etc.) and more high speed road infrastructure on the edge of cities but the people I know who’ve had significant issues with things like Zipcar reservations seems like the greatest barrier for that. If people are use to going when they want, you need to deliver reliable availability to get them to reconsider.