Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle • Hacker News Board

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#11

Post by darth_avocado » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #2

So you deliberately don't charge the battery to 100% then conclude the realistic range is shorter than advertised? I get you don't charge to 100% every day, but if you know you're going to drive further then....you do. Or just do what I do and charge to max each time, the battery is warrantied for 8 years, it's going to be fine. >>Imagine your daily commute is 115 km (e.g. Roeselare-Brussel That would be an extremely…

Even if you do 100%, with just 1 year of used, my Tesla battery on 100% charge shows 320 miles, which is a far cry from 358 advertised.

Plus the other estimates are correct. The range drops if it’s too cold, or if it is too hot, or if you use any of the features that the car advertises, or if you’re driving on a freeway, or if it is a stop and go traffic, or if you gain elevation, or basically if you use your car as a car.

Don’t get me wrong, I still love my car and I would never drive an non EV again, and a non Tesla EV at the moment. But calling out the marketing bs is totally fair.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#12

Post by sigio » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

Just did a 1000km (and back) drive this week, using a Kia Niro, which does about 400km on 64kWh. Was amazed I actually managed to drive this distance with 4 charges one way, and just 3 on the way back, reaching almost 400km actually on the first leg of the return trip (though this was downhill from the Alps). With longer roadtrips you want to go way below 20% remaining charge. With the quality of the charging-network in western-europe, and using ABetterRoadPlanner I managed to get a charge at 2% and a second one at 8% remaining, thus giving you 25% more capacity than re-charging at ~20% (~4-80 compared to 20-80). And this was with winter-tires and a full car. Sure, the actual range is still lower than the EPA / WLTP / NEDC range, but very usable and predictable.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#13

Post by colordrops » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #8

richwater wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fantastic way to crater your cars resale value.

Why do Americans care so much about resale instead of just using the stuff you bought? If I ever buy a house it'll be to actually live life in it, not to nickel-and-dime some poor college student.

It's double edged, the first edge is selfish, maximum extraction of value. The second is definitely not exclusive to Americans - taking care of your belongings and reducing the rate of sending things to landfill.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#14

Post by pforret » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #2

So you deliberately don't charge the battery to 100% then conclude the realistic range is shorter than advertised? I get you don't charge to 100% every day, but if you know you're going to drive further then....you do. Or just do what I do and charge to max each time, the battery is warrantied for 8 years, it's going to be fine. >>Imagine your daily commute is 115 km (e.g. Roeselare-Brussel That would be an extremely…

> What percentage should I charge the battery to? > > For regular use, we recommend keeping your car set within the 'Daily' range bracket, up to approximately 90%. Charging up to 100% is best saved for when you are preparing for a longer trip. You can adjust how full the battery charges from the charge settings menu. > [tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/faq](https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/faq)

> There are two reasons: charging performance and battery longevity. Most of the time you should only charge an EV to 80% because charging rates slow down dramatically past the 80% mark. And two, the long-term health of your vehicle’s battery pack is improved when kept below 100%. > [witricity.com](https://witricity.com/newsroom/blog/the-80-rule/)

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#15

Post by rassimmoc » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #5

Totally agree, EPA ranges are bullshit. The real world has these things called hills that they've probably never heard of in Washington DC. It also doesn't snow much in in DC so they probably don't know about that either. They really should be reporting 50% of their ranges as standard. When people get slightly better than that, they'll be pleasantly surprised and it will result in much more customer satisfaction acro…

>>ALWAYS underpromise and overdeliver if you want happy customers.

not if you have customers comparing you promise to competitions promise. In this case you will never have option to deliver anything

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#16

Post by colordrops » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

gcheong wrote: post #9

“In my case, I typically charge the car to 80%” My understanding is that the preservation of the battery is built into the charge controller and you shouldn’t have to worry about it. In other words when your car says it’s fully charged it’s only “really” charged to 80% or some other cutoff as determined by the charge controller. I don’t drive a Tesla so my only point of reference is my Fiat 500e which doesn’t have as…

The Tesla notifies you that you will be shortening the life of the battery if you regularly charge to 100.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#17

Post by dheera » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:25 PM UTC

rassimmoc wrote: post #15

dheera wrote: post #5

Totally agree, EPA ranges are bullshit. The real world has these things called hills that they've probably never heard of in Washington DC. It also doesn't snow much in in DC so they probably don't know about that either. They really should be reporting 50% of their ranges as standard. When people get slightly better than that, they'll be pleasantly surprised and it will result in much more customer satisfaction acro…

>>ALWAYS underpromise and overdeliver if you want happy customers. not if you have customers comparing you promise to competitions promise. In this case you will never have option to deliver anything

The EPA doesn't have competitors, they can totally do this just to increase electric car satisfaction which will help drive adoption.

Everyone will be all over social media with videos saying how their car was rated for 300km but they got 400km out of it and EVs will start getting very, very positive reviews.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#18

Post by sigio » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

michpoch wrote: post #10

manmal wrote: post #7

Author first assumes that only 60% of the available battery capacity is used (80% > 20%) and then arrives at the conclusion that the range is lower than expected. Well, no shit. I personally do charge my Ioniq BEV to 100%, and I often drive it to, say, 6%. In summer, I get a range of 220km, and in winter 160-180km, depending on temperature and number of cold starts (cold starts seem to trigger a battery warm-up). SOH…

What do you do when you arrive at the charger with 6% battery left and the charger doesn’t work? Or if there’s a significant queue?

Select charge-locations with 4+ chargers available, and in the larger charge-locations along motorway/freeway intersections, there's usually chargers from multiple networks/suppliers, so even failures on a backend of one provider can be worked around by using another network. Doing 2000km this week, I only encountered 1 case where I had to use the 50kw charger, as it was the only one available (there were 2 300kw chargers, 1 in use and 1 in maintenance-mode). Most charge-locations had 4+ available and unused stalls, with various locations having 10+ 150kw+ stations.

Availability can be seen in many charge-apps miles before you get to the location, so if you see it at 75%+ capacity, select a different location.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#19

Post by lelanthran » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #2

So you deliberately don't charge the battery to 100% then conclude the realistic range is shorter than advertised? I get you don't charge to 100% every day, but if you know you're going to drive further then....you do. Or just do what I do and charge to max each time, the battery is warrantied for 8 years, it's going to be fine. >>Imagine your daily commute is 115 km (e.g. Roeselare-Brussel That would be an extremely…

> That would be an extremely unusual commute to be doing by car in Europe, people do it but it's very rare. If you're going to be covering over 1000km a week(!!!!) Then get a good diesel, not a brand new EX90.

Aren't they in the middle of outlawing them?

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#20

Post by sicp-enjoyer » Sun, Jan 15, 2023, 6:27 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #8

richwater wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fantastic way to crater your cars resale value.

Why do Americans care so much about resale instead of just using the stuff you bought? If I ever buy a house it'll be to actually live life in it, not to nickel-and-dime some poor college student.

I agree this is a cultural problem. Houses are seen as retirement vehicle, etc. I think it's partially a sales tactic, to switch your brain into "investing" mode and willing to fork up a lot of cash and leverage (I'm "investing" in a Tesla, see how much gas i'll save?).