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Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

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Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#51

Post by xnx »

remote_phone wrote: post #41
JohnBooty wrote: post #23

Misleading headline. "A group of state legislators propose a law" != "State ABC wants to XYZ" This is a law proposed by a small group of state legislators. Of course, all laws start as bills like this. But most bills never become law. A more responsible and less sensationalistic story would talk about the level of support for such a bill, its chances of becoming actual law, its constitutionality, and so on. This is n…

Can we penalize sites that provide misleading headlines? I’m so sick of sites twisting the facts like this, if we could build a list of sites that don’t manipulate the facts and just present things straight I would love it.

> Can we penalize sites that provide misleading headlines?

Or the members that submit them

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#52

Post by ohjeez »

xnx wrote: post #51
remote_phone wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we penalize sites that provide misleading headlines? I’m so sick of sites twisting the facts like this, if we could build a list of sites that don’t manipulate the facts and just present things straight I would love it.

> Can we penalize sites that provide misleading headlines? Or the members that submit them

Well as the OP on this one, I contemplated changing the headline (which was too long in any case)... but in other circumstances we get in trouble with a community for changing a headline to opine.

I err on the side of "just report what the publication says" and let others (appropriately) criticize bad headline-writing.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#53

Post by belter »

JohnBooty wrote: post #23

Misleading headline. "A group of state legislators propose a law" != "State ABC wants to XYZ" This is a law proposed by a small group of state legislators. Of course, all laws start as bills like this. But most bills never become law. A more responsible and less sensationalistic story would talk about the level of support for such a bill, its chances of becoming actual law, its constitutionality, and so on. This is n…

Wyoming is 70 % Republican, the legislators proposing it are Republican and these are not just created on a whim. The conversations ensuring support already happened.

It seems Wyoming requires just a simple majority.

https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/SJ0004

The flagging of the article is not justified. There is more here than just a politician conversation or controversial interview.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#54

Post by jefftk »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #11

Yeah, that is not going to happen. The momentum that EVs have at the moment, I would be surprised if there even is a mainstream ICE car available in 2035.

> I would be surprised if there even is a mainstream ICE car available in 2035.

I'd be happy to bet on that!

There's no state in the US where electric cars are a majority of what are sold today, with the highest fraction being CA at 18%. [1]. Naive extrapolation gives you 57% of CA in 2030 and 30% of US. [2] The combination of "some people are going to still prefer gas cars" and "those people are concentrated in some states" means I'd expect many ICE options available in 2035.

[1] https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/10/19/california-zev-sales-near-...

[2] https://evadoption.com/ev-sales/ev-sales-forecasts/

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#55

Post by JohnBooty »

ohjeez wrote: post #52
xnx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we penalize sites that provide misleading headlines? Or the members that submit them

Well as the OP on this one, I contemplated changing the headline (which was too long in any case)... but in other circumstances we get in trouble with a community for changing a headline to opine. I err on the side of "just report what the publication says" and let others (appropriately) criticize bad headline-writing.

Changing the headline is not encouraged/allowed on HN; the mods will usually (always?) change it to reflect the actual one.

The issue here is that you linked to a low quality source. As I said, this is newsworthy IMO. But surely there was a better quality source you might have chosen.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#56

Post by sundaeofshock »

hef19898 wrote: post #9
jmclnx wrote: post #3

I am sure that will work, a state with a population less than a tiny neighborhood in New York City thinking this will make an impact, good luck with that :) Also I do not know how they can stop the creation of charging stations. IIRC, Biden wants to pepper Interstate highways with charging stations. So at the very least, there will still be stations in WY no matter what that bill says.

They still have the same number on Senators, don't they?

Yeah. So what? Wyoming is a state with a shrinking population, whose 581,000 residents represent 0.17% of the US population. Laws passed there will have a vanishingly small impact on the manufacturing decisions of any major auto company.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#57

Post by rsj_hn »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #50
rsj_hn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing hurts some Californians' feelings than the simple fact that the rest of the nation no longer looks to them for guidance. Yes, California is still big. But it's no longer a leader. The idea "but California did this" is no longer an argument in favor of something. It's often an argument against doing something. I am sorry if this triggers you, but it's reality.

Source? Says who? Your opinion is clearly evident, but it’s just that, your opinion.

There are many surveys out there. California generally competes with Illinois and New Jersey as the most hated state and the most dysfunctional state.

For example, https://www.cagrocers.com/california-repeats-worst-run-state...

It has a broad reputation for dysfunction in basically every area. Energy -- it imports 20% of its electricity from the rest of the nation's grid to get around wacky anti-carbon rules for domestically produced energy, and as a result has the highest energy costs in the nation as well as suffering from rolling blackouts. It is the state of constant fires because of forest mismanagement due to a politically influential "don't chop down our precious trees" faction. (California's chronic fires are also blamed on global warming). It has one of the worst education systems and a truly insane educational policy ("we will create 5 million Galois' by eliminating math classes!"). Terrible homeless problem. Terrible crime problem. A shrinking population. Massively dysfunctional housing market. And one of the highest tax burdens. Massive infrastructure problems.

Etc.

It's really hard to think of any area of public policy - from tax policy to education to energy or crime -- and say "Hey, what California is doing is working really well, we should emulate that". Just compare how California stood in areas like test scores, crime, housing affordability, energy prices in 1970 versus 1990 versus today. You see a peak and then a decline followed by collapse.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#58

Post by mynameisvlad »

rsj_hn wrote: post #57
mynameisvlad wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? Says who? Your opinion is clearly evident, but it’s just that, your opinion.

There are many surveys out there. California generally competes with Illinois and New Jersey as the most hated state and the most dysfunctional state. For example, https://www.cagrocers.com/california-repeats-worst-run-state... It has a broad reputation for dysfunction in basically every area. Energy -- it imports 20% of its electricity from the rest of the nation's grid to get around wacky anti-carbon rules for dome…

Choosing a 13 year old clearly reblogged article from an organization known as “24/7 Wall St.” (with a dot and all) as your source is an interesting way to provide a credible source showing the current opinion of everyone in the US regarding California. It’s not even a survey, which would have been obvious had you spent the time to actually look at it rather than cherry-pick the first result off Google which lined up with your opinion.

It’s especially ridiculous since that’s literally just one organization’s opinion on California.

And their opinion is solely based on 4 key indicators and nothing else. I’m not a data scientist but even I know that you can pretty easily find 4 key metrics which allow you to rank states in any way you choose.

If you were to actually look up the organization, you would see it’s just a random blog (not that it is at all surprising considering their name), and that their 2021 rankings had California solidly in the middle of the pack, not that it makes a difference considering how limited their methodology is.

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2021/05/19/the-states-w...

Finally, just because you can’t think of any areas does not mean any don’t exist. You’ve made your opinions clear already.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#59

Post by phpisthebest »

sokoloff wrote: post #48
phpisthebest wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>being able to measure battery wear definitively That is the problem right there, I do not believe they can do that that definitively, and there are more than a few horror stories already where a person buys a Used EV, the battery tested fine on purchase, but then just a few months later a cell goes out... and since you can not just replace a single cell well now they have a $20,000 bill often more than the car is w…

I agree that a definitive measure of battery health is not available (in two senses: the ones available are not conclusive and they are easily tampered with). I disagree that the batteries are not serviceable. My car has had a module replacement which served to restore battery and vehicle capacity after a single module (mostly) failed. That was done at a dealer under warranty, but there are many aftermarket suppliers…

Under the guise of safety most manufacturers have or in the process of blocking 3rd party batteries. Electrify America also at one point in time only allowed "certified manufacturers" to charge on their network, blocking "homemade" EV's and repaired EV;s

Tesla Famously have blocked their supercharger network from rebuilds as well

It is not a technical limitation it is an economic and political one.

>That was done at a dealer under warranty

And most likely with out that warranty your car would have been economically totaled. Which is normally any repair that costs 55-60% of the current market value.

Re: Wyoming senators want to phase out sales of EVs

#60

Post by sokoloff »

phpisthebest wrote: post #59
sokoloff wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that a definitive measure of battery health is not available (in two senses: the ones available are not conclusive and they are easily tampered with). I disagree that the batteries are not serviceable. My car has had a module replacement which served to restore battery and vehicle capacity after a single module (mostly) failed. That was done at a dealer under warranty, but there are many aftermarket suppliers…

Under the guise of safety most manufacturers have or in the process of blocking 3rd party batteries. Electrify America also at one point in time only allowed "certified manufacturers" to charge on their network, blocking "homemade" EV's and repaired EV;s Tesla Famously have blocked their supercharger network from rebuilds as well It is not a technical limitation it is an economic and political one. >That was done at…

Incorrect (to the point of being FUD, IMO).

If it happened again now (outside the warranty period), it would cost me ~6-8 hours and around $70 for the module.

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