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Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

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261–270 of 469 posts

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#261
As with anything, there needs to be some evidence to believe something, and if there’s evidence, you can follow that to figure out if it’s real or just anomalous.

Generally, it’s a bad idea to believe things without evidence, so I guess you can trust your computer isn’t compromised the same way you can trust no unicorns exist; there’s not any credible evidence to suggest it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#262

You can try to "snoop" on the virus. For example, collecting all the internet packets, see if some ports are opened that is not needed. Collect logs on which apps are eating up the battery. These steps are not perfect by any means, but you can catch some noisy virus with this. If your virus is very stealthy you can only hope your passwords show up in haveibeenpwned. This is also why using an open source OS is so impo…

Open-source is de facto closed source if you don't build your own stuff (and know how to debug it). That's the status most OSS users are in, I suspect. I run Linux but I've never compiled a kernel and I've never run a native debugger. It's nice that I could, but this is just a platitude.

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#263
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to verify exactly? Do you think Apple is lying about what lockdown mode does? Why would they do that? Could you at least say what your opinion is based on? But it is possible to verify what it does, the same way you would for an android phone (I.e. not just look at the source code and hope that it matches what’s running on your device). https://youtu.be/8mQAYeozl5I At 26:42 he talks about lockdown mo…

What if he’s wrong? Computers do things their programmers don’t expect them to literally all the time. Security bugs generally come from a mistaken assumption about how something behaves. He doesn’t have to be a liar to be telling you untruths about how it works.

What if everyone is wrong about the effectiveness of Android’s mitigations? Then iOS would be more secure.

Could you please make concrete a point?

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#264
post #74

Surprised not to see a mention of Talos II system based on IBM POWER9 technology that is open spec and otherwise a very competent build with fully open hardware FPGA mainboard and stuff like physical trip jumper protection, and potential for customised security measures via the BMC, Arctic Tern, et cetera. IBM is notoriously good at virtualisation, and POWER9 is very competent for machine learning workloads, the 2U a…

This is like the third time I'm hearing about these raptors in the past month and I want one. I want the $10,000 one. Your comment is the most constructive one in this thread, because it sounds like the solution for all the concerns expressed above has finally arrived. Who here is willing to put their money where their values are?

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#266

You can try to "snoop" on the virus. For example, collecting all the internet packets, see if some ports are opened that is not needed. Collect logs on which apps are eating up the battery. These steps are not perfect by any means, but you can catch some noisy virus with this. If your virus is very stealthy you can only hope your passwords show up in haveibeenpwned. This is also why using an open source OS is so impo…

Open-source is de facto closed source if you don't build your own stuff (and know how to debug it). That's the status most OSS users are in, I suspect. I run Linux but I've never compiled a kernel and I've never run a native debugger. It's nice that I could , but this is just a platitude.

But anyone this paranoid will obviously build from source? Most OSS users don't build from source because they don't care to look in their internet packets for viruses.

BTW, it is not that hard either. You can even have multiple Linux kernels installed at the same time. Same with Android ROMs, just checkout the code, build it and flash using ADB. It is about as difficult as dual booting Windows and Ubuntu.

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#267

ex-AOSP dev here Android and ChromiumOS are likely the most trustable computing platforms out there; doubly so for Android running on Pixels. If you don't prefer the ROM Google ships with, you can flash GrapheneOS or CalyxOS and relock the bootloader. Pixels have several protections in place: - Hardware root of trust: This is the anchor on which the entire TCB (trusted computing base) is built. - Cryptographic verifi…

...assuming you blindly trust google. The same company that sends on average 12 MB of telemetries a day from android devices.

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#268
post #11

I don’t have ultimate trust in any software or hardware, but I get to “good enough” by deciding which providers I trust: * Software: Canonical, Google, Microsoft, Valve, Oracle, Dropbox. I install software from their official repos and keep it up to date. Anything 3rd-party/unofficial/experimental/GitHub goes in a VM. * Hardware: I built my main PC from mainstream commodity components. I have no way of knowing if the…

"which providers I trust: * Software: Google, Microsoft" I trust that Google and Microsoft won't hack into my bank account and steal money, even though they could, but otherwise I assume they collect anything they want and can.

I caught Windows Defender "automatic sample submission" silently uploading places.sqlite out of my Firefox directory despite the assurance in the control panel that "We'll prompt you if the file we need is likely to contain personal information".

So now I disable automatic sample submission via group policy but Microsoft definitely can and will access files that they really have no business accessing.

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#269
post #159

ex-AOSP dev here Android and ChromiumOS are likely the most trustable computing platforms out there; doubly so for Android running on Pixels. If you don't prefer the ROM Google ships with, you can flash GrapheneOS or CalyxOS and relock the bootloader. Pixels have several protections in place: - Hardware root of trust: This is the anchor on which the entire TCB (trusted computing base) is built. - Cryptographic verifi…

IMO we have to step back and be honest that the Linux kernel is simply not equipped to run trusted code and untrusted code in the same memory. New bugs are found every few weeks. If history is of any guide Android and ChromiumOS likely still have many critical bugs the public does not know about yet. Sadly the only choice is to burn extra ram to give every security context a dedicated kernel and virtual machine. Hype…

To be fair, Pixels (and all modern Android phones by my understanding) use some kind of trusted execution environment. So if you have a Pixel 6 or later you're using Trusty to perform some trusted actions, which is not Linux and gets some of its own SoC die space. That doesn't mean you can't get kernel pwned and lose private info.

Re: Ask HN: How do you trust that your personal machine is not compromised?

#270

Read the following short story… Disclaimer: I’m not responsible for any paranoia, computer fear or conspiracy thoughts that might arise after reading it: https://www.teamten.com/lawrence/writings/coding-machines/

Lol. That was a fun read. Thanks for that.
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