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Recent improvements to Safari

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Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#131

Post by astkaasa »

netheril96 wrote: post #83
can16358p wrote: post #4

I don't really know about all the details of those metrics but I know one thing: Safari is smooth. Actually it was just perfect in the previous years too for me anyway. It just works and works super-efficient. That's why I use it. The only reason I have Chrome installed is to test my websites with Chrome and use MetaMask. TBH I never understood why people use Chrome on a Mac unless there is a specific extension or si…

I use Chrome on Mac for several reasons: * I also regularly use Windows and Linux. Chrome is familiar and have synchronized across all of them. * I need a proxy extension to bypass China’s network restrictions. The extension was not available on Safari (I don’t bother to check now). * uBlock Origin is more powerful than Safari’s adblockers. For example, uBO can skip the 90 second long advertisement in the front of so…

you can use system proxy instead, but that may cause other issue.

Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#132

Post by scarface74 »

summerlight wrote: post #129
scarface74 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if Apple “is driving everyone to the App Store instead of the web” and Android browsers are so much better, then why do companies waste time making Android apps instead of telling Android users to just use the web? How many companies are making iOS apps and not Android apps and telling Android users to just use the web?

Oh, what a typical example of whataboutism. We've been talking about iOS and you're bringing not just Android but Android browsers to attack a strawman? Chrome has been a much better development platform than Safari before 2022 but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better than the primary platform API? And why did you think companies will build a web app instead of Android apps when they cannot practically reuse it…

No, I’m saying that since almost every service of note has a website for computers anyway, if it’s only Safari that’s keeping apps from being web apps instead of being “forced” to go through the App Store, then why do companies bother about making a web app and an Android app?

> And why did you think companies will build a web app instead of Android apps when they cannot practically reuse it on iOS

Because they are already building a web app for computers.

> Apple is the one to blame and now they're forced to fix that thanks to DMA. You don't have to have that angry of this fact.

And you really think companies are going to all the sudden stop writing native apps?

These companies could have already built just an app for iOS and a web app like they do now for computers and not waste time building native apps.

And let’s not even go into how shitty and low powered the average Android device is and how badly it performs with native apps and web apps.

No I’m not saying that all Android devices are bad. I’m saying that the average $250 Android device is bad - and yes that’s the average selling price of an Android in the US.

Android users aren’t buying high end devices.

Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#134

Post by can16358p »

isolli wrote: post #71
can16358p wrote: post #4

I don't really know about all the details of those metrics but I know one thing: Safari is smooth. Actually it was just perfect in the previous years too for me anyway. It just works and works super-efficient. That's why I use it. The only reason I have Chrome installed is to test my websites with Chrome and use MetaMask. TBH I never understood why people use Chrome on a Mac unless there is a specific extension or si…

As a counterpoint, I had to switch to Chrome because: a) Google Meets was unreliable on Safari; b) the search in Safari is terrible (in one instance it could not find a word that other browsers would).

a) I also have the same. Ironically this is on Google, and I really think they don't fix it on purpose.

b) Agree with this one.

Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#135

Post by can16358p »

trilbyglens wrote: post #75
can16358p wrote: post #4

I don't really know about all the details of those metrics but I know one thing: Safari is smooth. Actually it was just perfect in the previous years too for me anyway. It just works and works super-efficient. That's why I use it. The only reason I have Chrome installed is to test my websites with Chrome and use MetaMask. TBH I never understood why people use Chrome on a Mac unless there is a specific extension or si…

Anyone who has ever had to test CSS in safari will tell you why. Safari is the laggard, IE equivalent of modern browsers.

I test CSS on Safari a lot. It works exactly the same as Chrome for 99.9% of daily cases unless someone is doing very edgy quirks.

It indeed has some bugs about autocompletion and messing up CSS in dev tools, needing a site reload, but nothing super major.

Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#136

Post by tinus_hn »

frankthedog wrote: post #125
tinus_hn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s documented API. It’s either because it doesn’t actually work as documented, or because the other applications’ developers are lazy. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/password_...

Your link is for app development, not web.

The comment claims Safari, an app, has exclusive access to system features, my comment shows how other apps have access to the same features. The web has nothing to do with it.

Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#137

Post by frankthedog »

tinus_hn wrote: post #136
frankthedog wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link is for app development, not web.

The comment claims Safari, an app, has exclusive access to system features, my comment shows how other apps have access to the same features. The web has nothing to do with it.

I see that now after re-reading. You meant the other browser developers could add this. I first took it as saying websites could add it with some input attribute. My mistake.

Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#138

Post by catach »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #111
dontlaugh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those things are quite niche. I use Wipr, block third party cookies and use private mode when needed, use bookmarks and tab groups. Not liking the UI is very subjective, personally I think they all suck somewhat.

>All of those things are quite niche. The reasons vertical tabs are niche: 1. horizontal is the default in every browser 2. The most popular browser doesn't have any way to have functional vertical tabs 3. It is a huge pain to set up vertical tabs in Firefox 4. Safari's implementation of vertical tabs is a sad joke. Vertical tabs are clearly superior and there is no doubt that horizontal tabs will eventually be a rel…

> Vertical tabs are clearly superior

The tradeoff of sacrificing some horizontal page space for a vertical tab list is indeed worthwhile if you're opening and revisting 10 or 15+ tabs. I've got about 150 open right now.

However, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority only have open between 4 and 7 tabs almost all of the time. If this is true, and if it remains true, then it's likely the primary reason why horizontal tabs have been the default in browsers, and why it will remain the default.

Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#139

Post by Eric_WVGG »

When articles about new versions of Safari are released, I go straight to the details of ECMAscript and CSS improvements and disregard everything else as irrelevancy.

But the recent introduction of "tab groups" has been an absolute game-changer for me. I currently have groups set up for technical research, shopping, gift ideas, recipes, and random-shit-about-bicycles. This is great not only for keeping tab-madness under control, but also the ability to close windows full of tabs without worrying about losing stuff. The tab groups have memory, sync across devices… brilliant stuff and absolutely worth re-developing ones browser habits around.

Re: Recent improvements to Safari

#140

Post by mananaysiempre »

pontilanda wrote: post #91
pjmlp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That role belongs to Chrome, half of their stuff isn't even a Web standard.

Chrome is not the the weakest / furthest behind major browser

On release, IE6 was so ahead on CSS standards conformance it broke websites. The old (long-forgotten) incantation for accessing XMLHttpRequest is the way you create a COM IDispatchEx object by ProgID from inside Active Scripting, because that was the way it worked in the original IE implementation. Before there were PWAs or Electron, there was the HTA, introduced with IE5. (Admittedly XUL came even earlier.) And so on—those are not exceptions.

It’s just that once Microsoft won the web, it turned out what they wanted to do with it as the main competitor to their fat-client business was nothing, so the IE team was effectively dissolved and IE stagnated, leaving an opportunity for Firefox to displace it. But before that happened, they innovated like crazy, up to and including (by some accounts) a right to demand features they needed from the Windows team—and, on the other hand, writing the original implementations for others: multilingual UI, a Unicode layer for 9x, windowless ActiveX controls, new revisions of the common controls, etc.

So you’re right that Chrome is not the new IE of 2009: Chrome is the new IE of 1999. And unlike Microsoft back then, Google now seem perfectly happy to fund the hamster wheel if it means every other prospective browser is also forced to run inside it or lose users.

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