Live data from Hacker News

Grain farming goes indoors

modernfarmer.com

31–40 of 124 posts

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#31

I’m skeptical. The problem with grains and hydroponics is that grains are just so cheap it doesn’t make economic sense to do it. Vegetables, particularly leafy greens, are mostly water and can be sold at tremendous markup. I don’t see anything here that changes that economic reality. Even if they were able to double wheat production to 4 crops a year, I don’t that’s enough to make it viable. Most telling is this pass…

"The problem with grains and hydroponics is that grains are just so cheap it doesn’t make economic sense to do it."

It makes a ton of economic and ecological sense if you actually break it down. Damn shame the article fails to do so. We knew it made sense a decade ago when I got brought into the field to improve upon the lighting aspects for several companies.

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water is actually scarce and getting more scarce every year, particularly in agricultural areas. There are article about this pretty much every year now.

How would this venture bypass the water issue? Because, I think this venture will also require similar quantity of water.

We can drop water requirements up to 99% for some crops versus traditional land farming using hydroponics. You get a sealed environment where water doesn't just get lost.

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if you _couldn't_ farm outdoors, because your outdoor farm is now a dust bowl, or a desert, or a recently inundated coastal plain, submerged by sea water? Financial practicality is not a concern if this is the only way a region has to make food.

If any of those things happened our food needs would likely be diminished anyway

No more steak, that's for sure.

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#34
post #8

Hmm, nice thing from an experimental point of view, but I very much doubt there will be any practical use of this tech anytime soon unless one happens to have supply of free energy. They say>grow food with 95% less water and 97% less land What about energy, and other inputs(like fertiliser)? I bet just hauling food from wherever it grows well will be much cheaper than growing it indoors for a long time. Unless... Som…

> I read somewhere direct efficiency of most grain crops in sun energy conversion into calories is 1%

This is why I’m in favour of turning farmland into suburbs/exurbs. As you cover your roof in solar panels and plant a few trees, you’re collecting more energy than the farmland did before.

And if you’re like me, using most of the backyard as pretty high intensity agriculture and food scrap management (and if I could get away with it, some fertilizer I usually flush to the city for processing…).

The average flower garden has more biodiversity than any corn or wheat field.

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#35
post #22

I just can't see how this can replace conventional farming at scale. Currently, outdoor farming uses 4.62 billion acres [1]. The article says indoor farming has 25x the yield per acre. So that would be 177 million acres. Today, there are only about 44 million acres of total buildings in the world [2]. So to replace conventional farming, we'd need to build 4x as many buildings as currently exist; what's the environmen…

That's until they manage to stack vertically six layers of planted wheat, then you have 156x the yield per acre. You don't need to move all farming indoors either to create a big impact, if some countries manage to move indoors only 20% of the farming for instance, that's already a huge change by any possible measure, be it environmental, economic or geopolitical.

And also your remark about the energy cost doesn't seem correct, if that were true any kind of indoors agriculture would be too expensive to be possible.

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#36

"with the first successfully grown indoor wheat." I very seriously doubt this. Here's a video from 8 years ago from Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxF3VpzdLY Growing wheat in a greenhouse is going to have enormous capital and other costs. If this article was serious they would have posted the costs.

Also, early grain breeding trials (before field testing) at least since Borlaug. Walk past any university greenhouse in the Midwest and peek inside

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#37

This really doesn't seem cost-effective. Yeah on the one hand you're getting an increase in your output but on the other, you're getting a massive increase in costs. Traditional farming is dirt simple - you put the seeds in the dirt and the plant grows, then you harvest the plant (plus irrigation, plus fertilisation, plus pesticide use, etc). The cost, once you have the land, is the cost of the seed you're using (plu…

[deleted]

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#38
post #22

I just can't see how this can replace conventional farming at scale. Currently, outdoor farming uses 4.62 billion acres [1]. The article says indoor farming has 25x the yield per acre. So that would be 177 million acres. Today, there are only about 44 million acres of total buildings in the world [2]. So to replace conventional farming, we'd need to build 4x as many buildings as currently exist; what's the environmen…

"but on the other hand, I suspect that they might need to be brighter than sunlight to achieve 25x the yield per acre." https://i.imgur.com/FFKWNy8.jpg I've been doing this for almost a full decade, so can say with quite a lot of certainty that you can safely put your suspicions to rest. We even have tech to grow various crop types to harvest stage without needing light at all.

Could you explain the picture?

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would this venture bypass the water issue? Because, I think this venture will also require similar quantity of water.

The same way every hydroponic system saves water. Recirculation. Traditional soil growing literally pours the water on the ground, where most of it evaporates, and what doesn’t sinks into the soil and becomes unrecoverable on any reasonable timescale.

Depends how deep your well is. Sometimes around here, the water table is closer to the ground than your basement floor is…

Re: Grain farming goes indoors

#40
One thing people seem to be ignoring is that this research is useful because it creates a controlled environment in which to explore the variable affecting crop yields, even if the stated application has very limited practical value. Also keep in mind that many technologies take a considerable amount of time to develop before they are of any value at scale.

Take something that I presume most people on this forum are intimately familiar with: computers. It is not too difficult to find people mocking historical figure for claiming the world only needed a handful of computers, yet those claims made sense in a historical context: early computation devices were mechanical, electromechanical, or tube based. They were huge, slow, and seen of little value outside of performing a calculations in very specific domains. Even science fiction authors of the era had a difficult time imagining them as anything but hulking machines that may have controlled everything, yet were only accessible to a few. Attitudes may have shifted when transistors entered the picture, and shifted even further when integrated circuits were developed, yet it wasn't until the mid-70's until people started imagining what we have today. Even so, they were a novelty to most people until the mid-90's. We are talking about half a century in going from something that we would recognize as a computer until they were adopted by society as a whole. And that is ignoring the fact that people have been trying to develop calculating machines for centuries.

Research is good, even if the vast majority of it ends up leading to dead-ends, simply because we don't have sufficient imagination to determine what will be useful in the future.

Post reply on HN