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On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

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Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#31
post #23
post #7

The problems with LLM are numerous but whats really wild to me is that even as they get better at fairly trivial tasks the advertising gets more and more out of hand. These machine dont think, and they dont understand, but people like the CEO of OpenAI allude to them doing just that, obviously so the hype can make them money.

> These machine dont think, and they dont understand But they do solve many tasks correctly, even problems with multiple steps and new tasks for which they got no specific training. They can combine skills in new ways on demand. Call it what you want.

They don't. Solve tasks, I mean. There's not a single task you can throw at them and rely on the answer.

Could they solve tasks? Potentially. But how would we ever know that we could trust them?

With humans we not only have millennia of collective experience when it comes to tasks, judging the result, and finding bullshitters. Also, we can retrain a human on the spot and be confident they won't immediately forget something important over that retraining.

If we ever let a model produce important decisions, I'd imagine we'd want to certify it beforehand. But that excludes improvements and feedback - the certified software should better not change. If course, a feedback loop could involve recertification, but that means that the certification process itself needs to be cheap.

And all that doesn't even take into account the generalized interface: How can we make sure that a model is aware of its narrow purpose and doesn't answer to tasks outside of that purpose?

I think all these problems could eventually be overcome, but I don't see much effort put into such a framework to actually make models solve tasks.

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#32

This paper is the product of a failed model of AI safety, in which dedicated safety advocates act as a public ombudsman with an adversarial relationship with their employer. It's baffling to me why anyone thought that would be sustainable. Compare this to something like RLHF[0] which has acheived far more for aligning models toward being polite and non-evil. (This is the technique that helps ChatGPT decline to answer…

> The resulting InstructGPT models are much better at following instructions than GPT-3. They also make up facts less often, and show small decreases in toxic output generation. Our labelers prefer outputs from our 1.3B InstructGPT model over outputs from a 175B GPT-3 model, despite having more than 100x fewer parameters. I wonder if anyone's working on public models of this size. Looking forward to when we can selfh…

This is going to happen alot over the next few years. One can fine tune GPT-2 medium on an RTX2070. Training GPT-2 medium from scratch can be done for $162 on vast.ai. The newer H100/Trainium/Tensorcore chips will bring the price down even further.

I suspect if one wanted to fully replicate ChatGPT from scratch it would take ~1-2 million including label acquisition. You probably only require ~200-500k in compute.

The next few years are going to be wild!

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#33
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was activism masquerading as science. Many researches noted that positives and negatives were not presented in a balanced way. New approaches and efforts were not credited.

I haven't kept track but the activism of the trio could be severe sometimes. (Anecdotally, I have faced a bite-sized brunt: When discussion surrounding this paper was going on in Twitter, I had mentioned in my timeline (in a neutral tone) that "dust needed to settle to understand what was going wrong". This was unfortunately picked up & RTed by Gebru & the mob responded by name-calling, threatening DMs accusing me of…

[deleted]

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#34
post #19

This paper is the product of a failed model of AI safety, in which dedicated safety advocates act as a public ombudsman with an adversarial relationship with their employer. It's baffling to me why anyone thought that would be sustainable. Compare this to something like RLHF[0] which has acheived far more for aligning models toward being polite and non-evil. (This is the technique that helps ChatGPT decline to answer…

> researchers who implement real systems That's what I didn't like about Gebru - too much critique, not a single constructive suggestion. Especially her Gender Shades paper where she forgot about Asians. http://proceedings.mlr.press/v81/buolamwini18a/buolamwini18a... I think AnthropicAI is a great company to follow related to actually solving these problems. Look at their "Constitutional AI" paper. They automate and…

[deleted]

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#35
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was activism masquerading as science. Many researches noted that positives and negatives were not presented in a balanced way. New approaches and efforts were not credited.

I haven't kept track but the activism of the trio could be severe sometimes. (Anecdotally, I have faced a bite-sized brunt: When discussion surrounding this paper was going on in Twitter, I had mentioned in my timeline (in a neutral tone) that "dust needed to settle to understand what was going wrong". This was unfortunately picked up & RTed by Gebru & the mob responded by name-calling, threatening DMs accusing me of…

[deleted]

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#36

This paper is the product of a failed model of AI safety, in which dedicated safety advocates act as a public ombudsman with an adversarial relationship with their employer. It's baffling to me why anyone thought that would be sustainable. Compare this to something like RLHF[0] which has acheived far more for aligning models toward being polite and non-evil. (This is the technique that helps ChatGPT decline to answer…

> Compare this to something like RLHF[0] which has acheived far more for aligning models toward being polite and non-evil. (This is the technique that helps ChatGPT decline to answer questions like "how to make a bomb?")

I recently saw a screenshot of someone doing trolley problems with people of all races & ages with ChatGPT and noting differences. That makes me not quite as confident about alignment as you are.

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#37
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was activism masquerading as science. Many researches noted that positives and negatives were not presented in a balanced way. New approaches and efforts were not credited.

I haven't kept track but the activism of the trio could be severe sometimes. (Anecdotally, I have faced a bite-sized brunt: When discussion surrounding this paper was going on in Twitter, I had mentioned in my timeline (in a neutral tone) that "dust needed to settle to understand what was going wrong". This was unfortunately picked up & RTed by Gebru & the mob responded by name-calling, threatening DMs accusing me of…

Sounds similar to what I have witnessed on Twitter, not against me, but against a few very visible people in the AI community.

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#38
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The resulting InstructGPT models are much better at following instructions than GPT-3. They also make up facts less often, and show small decreases in toxic output generation. Our labelers prefer outputs from our 1.3B InstructGPT model over outputs from a 175B GPT-3 model, despite having more than 100x fewer parameters. I wonder if anyone's working on public models of this size. Looking forward to when we can selfh…

This is going to happen alot over the next few years. One can fine tune GPT-2 medium on an RTX2070. Training GPT-2 medium from scratch can be done for $162 on vast.ai. The newer H100/Trainium/Tensorcore chips will bring the price down even further. I suspect if one wanted to fully replicate ChatGPT from scratch it would take ~1-2 million including label acquisition. You probably only require ~200-500k in compute. The…

These things have reached the tipping point where they provide significant utility to a significant portion of the computer scientists working on making these things. Could be that the coming iterations of these new tools will make it increasingly easy to write the code for the next iterations of these tools.

I wonder if this is the first rumblings of the singularity.

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#39
post #13
post #6

This paper is embarrassingly bad. It's really just an opinion piece where the authors rant about why they don't like large language models. There is no falsifiable hypothesis to be found in it. I think this paper will age very poorly, as LLMs continue to improve and our ability to guide them (such as with RLHF) improves.

This is ok. 90% of research is creative thinking, dialogue. One idea creates the next, some are a foil, some are dead ends. As long as there are not outrageous claims being made for 'hard evidence' where there is none, it's fine. Maybe the format isn't fully appropriate but the content is. Most good things come about in a non-linear process which involves provocation along the line somewhere.

I expect science to have a hypothesis which can be falsified. Otherwise it’s just opining on a topic. Otherwise we could just call this HN thread “research”.

Re: On the dangers of stochastic parrots: Can language models be too big? (2021)

#40
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ok. 90% of research is creative thinking, dialogue. One idea creates the next, some are a foil, some are dead ends. As long as there are not outrageous claims being made for 'hard evidence' where there is none, it's fine. Maybe the format isn't fully appropriate but the content is. Most good things come about in a non-linear process which involves provocation along the line somewhere.

I expect science to have a hypothesis which can be falsified. Otherwise it’s just opining on a topic. Otherwise we could just call this HN thread “research”.

Position papers are exceedingly common. Common enough that there's a term for them.
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