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A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

outtherecolorado.com

11–20 of 28 posts

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#11

I have no opinion about weather modification but I live in CO and have a bunch of new age and wook friends. I've had a conversation several times where the other interlocutor has used these programs have been used to justify a belief in "chem trails". It's a really bad conversational cycle. me: "Chemtrails aren't real" wook: "yeah but they are doing weather modification" me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they…

useful idiot (plural useful idiots)

2. (derogatory, political jargon) One who is seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause through their 'naive' attempts to be a force for good.

I have usually viewed those conspiracy theories as an attempt to impugn their own (and our own) government with ill intent. It's agitprop. Like the opposite of beer goggles, it only sees anger and hatred and ill-will. Aesop's Fables already tell us that any old excuse will do, no matter how silly.

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#12

I have no opinion about weather modification but I live in CO and have a bunch of new age and wook friends. I've had a conversation several times where the other interlocutor has used these programs have been used to justify a belief in "chem trails". It's a really bad conversational cycle. me: "Chemtrails aren't real" wook: "yeah but they are doing weather modification" me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they…

> me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they publish explicitly what they are doing and Seems like a bad argument. They could simply be lieing, withholding information. And we should expect precisely that if there was a conspiracy.

If you start with the assumption that all information you get is false unless it conforms to what you want to believe, then yeah, you're gonna see conspiracies everywhere.

There's no ledge for that slippery slope. Everyone could be telling you lies. You could be living the Trumann show. Your dentist might be implementing mind control devices in your teeth while you're asleep. Lizard people might be running the Illuminati.

At some point, you need to find a way to live with a reasonable amount of uncertainty.

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#13

I have no opinion about weather modification but I live in CO and have a bunch of new age and wook friends. I've had a conversation several times where the other interlocutor has used these programs have been used to justify a belief in "chem trails". It's a really bad conversational cycle. me: "Chemtrails aren't real" wook: "yeah but they are doing weather modification" me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they…

What is "wook"?

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#14

I have no opinion about weather modification but I live in CO and have a bunch of new age and wook friends. I've had a conversation several times where the other interlocutor has used these programs have been used to justify a belief in "chem trails". It's a really bad conversational cycle. me: "Chemtrails aren't real" wook: "yeah but they are doing weather modification" me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they…

[deleted]

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#15

I have no opinion about weather modification but I live in CO and have a bunch of new age and wook friends. I've had a conversation several times where the other interlocutor has used these programs have been used to justify a belief in "chem trails". It's a really bad conversational cycle. me: "Chemtrails aren't real" wook: "yeah but they are doing weather modification" me: "but a) it's not a consipracy because they…

What is "wook"?

'Wook' here. Got the dreadlocks, grateful dead tiedye, the VW Westfalia and everything.

It's short form for wookie. (star wars, chewbaca) Basically came out of the jamband scene. If you've ever been to a music festival, and seen the dreadlocked folks, that party way to hard. That's a wook.

One of my fav insta meme accounts -- you'll get the idea. - https://www.instagram.com/cbgtwh/

--

Anyway, yes, hippies have been talking about chem trails for years. While you can call it a 'conspiracy theory'. Reality is -- they are doing weather modification, and have been for years. Maybe it's a matter of semantics for you. But the reality is, they are releasing chemicals (silver iodide), via aircraft, into the atmosphere. That's a fact.

As to claims of malfeasance. Unknown. I myself, and perhaps your 'wook' friends, have a problem with dropping chemicals from aircraft on unsuspecting populations. Who knows what the long term health impacts of that are. Probably some of that school of thought goes back to a time when they were using DDT on mosquitos. That turned out real well.

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "wook"?

'Wook' here. Got the dreadlocks, grateful dead tiedye, the VW Westfalia and everything. It's short form for wookie. (star wars, chewbaca) Basically came out of the jamband scene. If you've ever been to a music festival, and seen the dreadlocked folks, that party way to hard. That's a wook. One of my fav insta meme accounts -- you'll get the idea. - https://www.instagram.com/cbgtwh/ -- Anyway, yes, hippies have been t…

It did turn out real well? It ended malaria in the southern United States? Ended mosquito populations in hundreds of square miles? It was kind of a big deal?

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#17

> "it's tricky to prove that a weather result would or would not have happened if the cloud seeding effort didn't take place." It's notable that weather modification programs of the 1950s were iniated before the discovery of sensitive dependence on initial conditions (popularly known as 'chaos') in weather systems, by Edward Lorenz. His 1995 book, "The Essence of Chaos" is still the best overview of the subject: http…

This isn't really directly relevant for the form of weather modification - cloud seeding - discussed here, though.

Generally speaking, cloud seeding doesn't focus on state changes; you're not trying to materialize a precipitation cloud from clear air. It's straightforward enough to understand if a flow will lead to cloud formation. Generally speaking, it's also pretty straightforward with modern numerical weather prediction or large eddy simulations to predict whether those clouds that form will produce precipitation.

The problem here is the counter-factual in the real-world. If you seed a cloud with an ice-nucleating substance like silver iodide, how will that change the balance of microphysical processes that lead to precipitation production? It's really, really hard to directly measure these, and it's not obvious that you can observe "the next cloud over" (e.g. in a cloud street or a convective field) as a null case. Furthermore, "observing" that cloud might involve flying an aircraft with cloud probes through it (it's not always the case that a terrestrial X-band or aircraft-mounted radar will provide all the information you need to close the microphysical budget), and of course the aircraft itself can perturb the cloud.

This has really doesn't have anything to do with chaos or sensitivity to initial conditions. It's really just an issue of in the real world, we don't have a clean way to simultaneously measure the null hypothesis (what happens inside the cloud you don't perturb).

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Wook' here. Got the dreadlocks, grateful dead tiedye, the VW Westfalia and everything. It's short form for wookie. (star wars, chewbaca) Basically came out of the jamband scene. If you've ever been to a music festival, and seen the dreadlocked folks, that party way to hard. That's a wook. One of my fav insta meme accounts -- you'll get the idea. - https://www.instagram.com/cbgtwh/ -- Anyway, yes, hippies have been t…

It did turn out real well? It ended malaria in the southern United States? Ended mosquito populations in hundreds of square miles? It was kind of a big deal?

It's use in the US was banned in 1972. Fact sheet from the national pesticide information center:

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/ddtgen.pdf

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#19

> "it's tricky to prove that a weather result would or would not have happened if the cloud seeding effort didn't take place." It's notable that weather modification programs of the 1950s were iniated before the discovery of sensitive dependence on initial conditions (popularly known as 'chaos') in weather systems, by Edward Lorenz. His 1995 book, "The Essence of Chaos" is still the best overview of the subject: http…

This isn't really directly relevant for the form of weather modification - cloud seeding - discussed here, though. Generally speaking, cloud seeding doesn't focus on state changes; you're not trying to materialize a precipitation cloud from clear air. It's straightforward enough to understand if a flow will lead to cloud formation. Generally speaking, it's also pretty straightforward with modern numerical weather pre…

> "Since the early cloud-seeding experiments reported by Kraus and Squires (1947), wherein it was hypothesized that the observed “explosive growth” of cumuli was the result of artificially induced glaciation of the cloud, there has been intensive interest and research in the relationships between evolution of the ice phase and the dynamics of cumuli."

As I understand it the idea is that a small amount of AGI or can cause nucleation which might trigger rainfall:

> "Thus, the latent heat liberated during the freezing of supercooled droplets and the vapor deposition growth of ice particles can augment the diminishing cloud buoyancy production during condensation growth of cloud droplets. In some cases, the additional buoyancy may be sufficient to allow a cloud to penetrate weak stable layers or to survive the entrainment of relatively dry environmental air."

The idea in cloud seeding is to hit a cloud 'on the verge of rain and push it over the boundary, but it doesn't seem straightforward at all to determine if a given cloud on that boundary will produce rain or not, as in a '50% chance of rain' forecast. It does indeed seem to be one of those chaotic boundary condition issues:

> "This demonstrates that there exists a very intimate, nonlinear coupling between buoyancy production by glaciation of a cloud and the evolution of the microstructure of the cloud, and the evolving cloud motion field."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sci...

Re: A breakdown of Colorado's 'weather modification' program

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "wook"?

'Wook' here. Got the dreadlocks, grateful dead tiedye, the VW Westfalia and everything. It's short form for wookie. (star wars, chewbaca) Basically came out of the jamband scene. If you've ever been to a music festival, and seen the dreadlocked folks, that party way to hard. That's a wook. One of my fav insta meme accounts -- you'll get the idea. - https://www.instagram.com/cbgtwh/ -- Anyway, yes, hippies have been t…

Oh,to be clear you are 100% correct in that we a) don't know the long term effects and b) in general folks aren't aware of these kinds of programs even if they are in more or less plain sight.

I appreciate your comment.

These projects seems very much like every other shitty thing that has been done around here, ranging from killing off predator populations to residential schools. Which is why I have very little opinion- the gov will do what they will do, and I will never have enough money to change that balance or enough tolerance for prison to do much directly.

However, I don't agree that it's just semantics to say that these projects are not "chemtrails".

Part of what I see in a larger group of people (for whom I am very fond) is a willingness to abandon most material nuance in their understanding of the world. In this case, specifically, it seems like a pretty normal case where the government is doing something with no regard for anything other than money.

That's not, specifically, what people are talking about when they are talking about chemtrails, and that is important to me.

Because the whole "chemtrials" discussion is a very handy metaphor about something that really is true:

the folks who own this place undertake vast technological projects with no regard for our well being.

However, since that's a metaphor and can be detached from reality, the responses to it can become immaterial and ineffective.

Like, great, maybe we can all go sit in energy vortexes in Sedona and examine our starseed bodies so we can astrally project into a dimension where we can directly battle the annunaki because the lizard people are trying to mind control the NPCs.

Or we can go levitate the pentagon or whatever people used to do for fun back int he day.

To me the specifics of these things matter because the responses vary based on how we understand the cause.

The fact that the government feels like they hold all the cards means that they are just up front about what they are doing and have no problem being violent to anyone who directly opposes those projects.

So it's hard enough to mount a effective material response to that situation without also having to deal with a bunch of misunderstandings of the world or going to prison for blowing up dams or burning down ski resorts.

Anyhow, sorry for the rant. I hope I'm just wrong and that all my new age friends really can manifest 5D consciousness and that Desert really is a wrong-headed bit of ficiton.

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