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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#591

Post by concordDance »

gsk22 wrote: post #524
massinstall wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this saying misogynistic? Because it’s a statement about men or because of the implied possibility they could be unhappy in their marriage? Also, why is it horrible? It appears this world has become manically trigger-happy to label something as -ist or -istic, when it contains even only a hint of something someone could possibly understand the wrong way. It would be curious to examine in a psychological study…

There are plenty of layers at which it's misogynistic, but the most obvious one perhaps is that it wholly centers around the man in the relationship. Why must the wife be the source of the husband's unhappiness ("nagging wife" trope)? Why does he get to be the great philosopher if they're both unhappy? You can say "it's just a saying, it would be equally true with the roles reversed" -- but then, why aren't they? Sur…

In an unhappy marriage the other person is normally the source of unhappiness. Not always of course (I knew a guy who got divorced because he felt he'd missed out on having more relationships).

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#592

Post by concordDance »

Gud wrote: post #588
weakfish wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great argument! Let me try. Yes it does. Did it do it right?

Parent didn’t provide an argument and the burden of proof is on them.

You can and should do better than them, not descend to their level. It's obvious to any reader that the parent was just making a bold assertion.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#593

Post by dzikimarian »

Aeolun wrote: post #589
dzikimarian wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try reversing this argument and talk about employee resisting much better offer, to remain loyal and you'll get eaten alive by commenters :-)

Is that so? I see a lot of people not wanting to switch for solely more money because they expect to hate it at a potential new company.

Yes and the same works for founders. If they expect, they will hate it after buyout, they will probably resist.

But what if new opportunity is ok, gets you 30% more money, but your departure makes your current company very sad and perhaps worse place for everyone to work at?

I wouldn't expect a lot of support for the idea of staying if you ask the internet for an opinion.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#594

Post by carl_sandland »

pc2g4d wrote: post #586
carl_sandland wrote: post #457

I empathize and completely agree; I like the distinction made between programming and 'software engineering'; the latter is all pure fantasy driven by the profit motive. I think we've been too nice to capitalists and need to reclaim our hobby from the evil. I'd so like to work in a well organized coop of some sort, on interesting challenges, damn the profit motive. And agile can go burn in hell, however 'correct' you…

Tell me more about this coop...

I think I may mean open-source, which is not really a coop. I guess a small start-up with like minded people is pretty damn identical. The coop part implies the lack of a profit motive though; just smart people solving problems with non-economic outcomes (merit).

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#595

Post by Tycho »

pdntspa wrote: post #55

I love most of the things around writing code but absolutely despise all the people that have popped up around it. Software engineering feels like a jobs program where we let nontechnical freeloaders figure out how to insert themselves into our process. I think that part of the reason that software sucks so much now is that the people designing it don't love software and technology the way we do, and it shows. I thin…

The problem is not so much the roles themselves, it’s the number of non technical people who are staffing them. If someone has “paid their dues” as a developer, it’s easy to trust their product vision, their roadmap, their design, their architecture, their delegation/organisation and decision making. But if they haven’t, everyone feels uneasy and lacks confidence about the whole project. And the non-technical people themselves know this, and may even admit it - but either way it doesn’t change the night-and-day contrast.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#596

Post by herbst »

I feel you. I am good at making software, I love doing it, but I dislike all the cooperate bullshit around it.

What really gave me back the love to programming, building and even some corporate bullshit was doing my own things. Just solve a small problem, get really good at it and if you get bored just start working on the next thing.

You choose your own tools, your working hours and how big you want to get. My suggestion is to stay small and safe time for new projects :)

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#598

Post by roeles »

meowtastic wrote: post #88
commandlinefan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in your quest of finding "the right company"...basically just a technical plumber I've come to a sort of depressing realization, 30 years into this career: the kind of companies that _will hire me_ are usually not the "right" company. I'm not even a plucky bootcamp self-motivator, I'm a state-school CS grad who's never worked for Google, Facebook or Amazon. The hiring processes that don't filter me out are the sort…

I have the same issue. I hate leetcode, am a good communicator and want to always connect what I build to the value it delivers to customers. But the companies that care about this the most are startups, and I've had some really bad experiences.

Thanks for this. I have observed the same thing. I wonder if anyone on HN has insights into how to find companies that focus on customer value.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#599

Post by inglor »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #6

> I have come to a realization that I don't really enjoy Software Engineering(& the processes that it comes with) but I do love programming & solving problems. I can almost guarantee that you’re just at the wrong company. Some software companies can turn even the simplest tasks into a grueling series of processes, endless meetings, and joint work across a big number of “stakeholders”. These companies will take the jo…

It might even be very different in the same company. I changed teams in my large company and the number of recurring meetings around process dropped from 8 to 0, no more daily, no sprint planning etc - we just talk about the feature then do it and we don’t need a lot of process since communication works well anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#600

Post by datavirtue »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #6

> I have come to a realization that I don't really enjoy Software Engineering(& the processes that it comes with) but I do love programming & solving problems. I can almost guarantee that you’re just at the wrong company. Some software companies can turn even the simplest tasks into a grueling series of processes, endless meetings, and joint work across a big number of “stakeholders”. These companies will take the jo…

I love meeting with the right people, documenting my work, and working with legacy code. Especially meetings, nothing more invigorating than building something with a team.

That said, as some have already mentioned, all of this is typically ruined somehow at nearly every company.

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