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Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

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Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#211
I wish I could find this post again, but one company had a clever approach to the problem. If you can figure out which countries the cracked software is originating from, you can serve up a version of your page where you offer up a free, unlocked version of your app.

You're still losing out on sales, but cracked software often originates in those same low-income countries. They get to have their free copies, and it's a likely bet that your customers in wealthier parts of the world will just buy the license instead of attempting to crack it themselves.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#212
Put some simple tracking in your software. Ping once a day when its running.

If individuals run it, eh who cares. There's a not insignificant amount of people who want to see if the real version would actually work. And see if it'll run on WINE or whatever. Pissing off individuals is how you get to be known as bad.

And then there's companies who run it pirated. Those are juicy targets. You dont even need to be mean. "We saw that your company appreciates the trial of our software on X machines for Y days, and would like to engage in licensing for your department/company."

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#213

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

There is a third option which I'm surprised no one has mentioned so far: Ignore them. First, people or companies using the cracked version of your software were never going to buy it. These people do not pay for software, and nothing you do will convince them to pay for it. Secondly, whatever measures you put in place to combat the cracked versions will potentially have a negative impact on your actual paying users -…

I agree with this, but I do think having pirate keys show up on ebay is a special case. I've dealt with this in businesses that expected Microsoft support but had windows and office keys bought off ebay that they believed were legitimate. End users often just think that $5 key is a special deal. It's worth sending whatever complaints you can to ebay.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#214

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

“But above all, make sure not to confuse a "pirated copy" with a "lost sale". In 99% of cases, the Venn diagram of those has very little overlapping area.”

I’m seeing many comments saying this, but it’s simply not true for commercial/industrial software. Outside of the US, even in large swathes of Europe, it’s extremely common to lose significant revenue to piracy, and if you make it too hard to pirate they will pay.

Companies (the customers in this case) that are happy to exploit workers in sweatshops? Also completely happy to use your software without paying for it.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a third option which I'm surprised no one has mentioned so far: Ignore them. First, people or companies using the cracked version of your software were never going to buy it. These people do not pay for software, and nothing you do will convince them to pay for it. Secondly, whatever measures you put in place to combat the cracked versions will potentially have a negative impact on your actual paying users -…

> First, people or companies using the cracked version of your software were never going to buy it. I've heard this before but I'm not convinced this is actually true. Why? Because I use Netflix instead of torrent sites, and just accept the limitations of that format. Programs are tools vs of entertainment, but I don't know that the human psychology actually changes. A neat trick they did was to introduce downloading…

I think this is different in consumer and corporate markets. The tradeoff to expose a business to legal liability and security problems is not a good one for most businesses while it's usually acceptable (or isn't realized by) many consumers.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But above all, make sure not to confuse a "pirated copy" with a "lost sale". In 99% of cases, the Venn diagram of those has very little overlapping area. Very true. If they were never going to pay anyway, you haven't lost anything if they use a crack. It still irks though!

Consider it free training, education, and marketing rather than a lost sale. It's literally the same reason most companies give students essentially fire sale discounts (often just free) versions of their software. They're probably pirating it because they aren't deriving much if any revenue from using it yet (it's either for personal use, they're learning a new tool, or they have no money). But having that person fa…

This was how I got a licence for the Protel (Now Altium) PCB design software when back in university; the cracked version doing the rounds on campus was rather prone to crashing, so eventually I figured I had nothing to lose, called up the distributor and asked them if they did student discounts, as buying a full licence was definitely out of the question, but so was using the, uh, evaluation version with its stability issues.

"Sure thing, how many do you need?"

When I hesitantly reminded him we hadn't discussed prices yet, I was told it was free as they really wanted to snare us in as users before we wound up in paid work where we'd need to be productive employees fast.

I have since had three employers buy full licenses and support deals. Good call by Protel back then.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whenever people report that bug I feel a little joy I hope you are super duper 100% sure the bug can’t happen otherwise. I would hate to be your paying costumer and ignored because your drm system is buggy.

Yes. 100% super duper sure. It's something along the lines of: Pi+=2 in one place of the code. And Pi += 1.1415 somewhere else. And both are guaranteed to run at the start of the program so that Pi=3.1415 However one of those lines is hidden in a part of the code that the most obvious crack is going to remove.

The hilarious thing about this is that this might have different behaviors across architectures or optimization levels if you do a bad floating point compare...

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#218
post #194

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

‘But above all, make sure not to confuse a "pirated copy" with a "lost sale". In 99% of cases, the Venn diagram of those has very little overlapping area.’ The non-overlapping are is likely non-trivial. There are surprising many shops that use professional software for client projects, could afford the license, but that prefer pirated copy to paying actual license fee. Ofc persecuting non-professional users is pointl…

A full actual version of SOLIDWORKS costs, no joke, $10,000 for a professional license ($8k plus $2k/yr support contract). An engineer at, say, Tesla is going to have that paid for by their employer while designing the Cybertruck. That Tesla engineer is also going to want to use SOLIDWORKS to design their bike shed. Their two choices for their bike shed are either use their work computer, or pirate it. (Using non-solidworks CAD isn't really an option due to the muscle memory involved with the application, and the resulting switching cost.) So it's getting pirated. But that also means their next employer better have SOLIDWORKS and so that "lost" sale for a bike shed really isn't.

But you'd be insane to use a pirated copy of SOLIDWORKS for anything professional (like if you were the Cybertruck's door handle subcontractor or whatever), just like you would be insane to use a pirated copy of windows or Office. But let's be real, plenty of people do that. Whether it's because they're poor, or whether it's because they're cheap, or both, full list price is simply not gonna get paid, and so they'll go with the cheaper option - it's just that cheaper option happens to be a $0 pirated copy in most cases. Some offices will have one genuine copy for one computer and pirated copies for the rest of everyone, especially part-time contractors. In that way, a cheaper academic license, even accepting that there's no fool proof way of checking for that, or having a time-limited entrepreneur/start-up option will lead to more sales and more money.

It then becomes an exercise in the dark art of pricing things, to figure out where that sweet spot actually is. A 30 or 90 day copy which is hopefully long enough to build the bike shed, priced right, is an actual sale that can be made that otherwise wouldn't. A cheaper limited version for the non-premium seats at the company are other additional sales to be made.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#219
post #97

Consider this: if the license costs 1,000, most people who are pirating it can’t afford it. Those pirates are learning how to use your software, and when they get a job at a relevant firm, what software are they going to want their new bosses to buy? I think Photoshop grew quite a bit due to something like this (before they went with the subscription nonsense)

> what software are they going to want their new bosses to buy?

In many cases, none because they'll just keep pirating yours. Even if the company has a "don't pirate, we want to pay for it" policy, some employees will still do it! That's something to keep in mind. For some, piracy has become the default way to get software.

You need to make it easier to buy than to pirate. I believe taking small credit card payments for 1-seat licenses is key here. If a low-ranking employee's options are piracy vs. informally asking their manager "hey can I buy this $99 software" and entering their credit card, you're much more likely to make a sale than if the employee has to choose between piracy and dealing with their purchasing department, legal department, IT security, etc.

This only applies to companies with corporate credit cards and employees that have a lot of flexibility, of course. I don't know what other methods you need to offer to make it easy for other companies.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a third option which I'm surprised no one has mentioned so far: Ignore them. First, people or companies using the cracked version of your software were never going to buy it. These people do not pay for software, and nothing you do will convince them to pay for it. Secondly, whatever measures you put in place to combat the cracked versions will potentially have a negative impact on your actual paying users -…

> First, people or companies using the cracked version of your software were never going to buy it. I've heard this before but I'm not convinced this is actually true. Why? Because I use Netflix instead of torrent sites, and just accept the limitations of that format. Programs are tools vs of entertainment, but I don't know that the human psychology actually changes. A neat trick they did was to introduce downloading…

Not sure how your example of Netflix refutes the point being made? It’s exactly the point?

Regardless this just goes to show that the problem can be mitigated by making the legitimate route less painful than the illegitimate one. I used to pirate most of my music collection but now I use Apple Music because the friction of maintaining the library across multiple devices is so much lower.

Imposing restrictions and hoops to make your product harder to pirate is vastly inferior and in many cases entirely ineffective in than designing the product to be a superior experience to pirating it.

The ability to do so is going to vary wildly by the product itself, but that is the better way to achieve the goal.

There are people who will always pirate things, whether out of principle or out of economics. However there are plenty of people who would gladly cross the line if the legitimate route was significantly better, either by ease of use or design.

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