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Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

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Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#201

Post by freedomben »

DarrenDev wrote: post #168
PreInternet01 wrote: post #29

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

There is a third option which I'm surprised no one has mentioned so far: Ignore them. First, people or companies using the cracked version of your software were never going to buy it. These people do not pay for software, and nothing you do will convince them to pay for it. Secondly, whatever measures you put in place to combat the cracked versions will potentially have a negative impact on your actual paying users -…

Yes, exactly! This is IMHO the best answer. You'd also be amazed at how many people pirated photoshop while they were youths and/or students, and later paid for a legit copy when they had a real business need because it was what they knew and loved.

It's very bad economics to think of a pirated copy as a lost sale. In some cases the piracy helps drive sales!

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#202

Post by wobbly_bush »

908B64B197 wrote: post #78
SecurityMinded wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shows that you have never dealt with companies in 3rd world countries. When money is tight, which is always in those countries, there is not a cheap-enough price that you can make them pay. They want the benefit of the product but they do nit want to pay anything for it. So, a free trial version in those places, will turn into a perpetual "free" trial. Same for "no proof needed" student/academic versions. Unfort…

> Same for "no proof needed" student/academic versions. At this point why not exclusively offer it to legitimate university users (with a valid .edu address)?

How many universities in the world outside of US give out a .edu address?

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#203

Post by CommitSyn »

One thing I haven't seen mentioned..

The reason that I pay for all software I can afford, and run the REALLY expensive stuff in an isolated VM, is ransomware. If I were to search for the latest version of a program on torrent sites and forums, and I found it and installed it, and then +1 day + the next time I opened it, it "updated" with ransomware that the cracker included... well, I'd be real unhappy and make sure to warn people with negative reviews on the crack sites. There are ransomware as a service providers now that pay a large percentage of any payments... It's everywhere!

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#204

Post by fragmede »

DarrenDev wrote: post #168
PreInternet01 wrote: post #29

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

There is a third option which I'm surprised no one has mentioned so far: Ignore them. First, people or companies using the cracked version of your software were never going to buy it. These people do not pay for software, and nothing you do will convince them to pay for it. Secondly, whatever measures you put in place to combat the cracked versions will potentially have a negative impact on your actual paying users -…

> First, people or companies using the cracked version of your software were never going to buy it.

I've heard this before but I'm not convinced this is actually true. Why? Because I use Netflix instead of torrent sites, and just accept the limitations of that format. Programs are tools vs of entertainment, but I don't know that the human psychology actually changes.

A neat trick they did was to introduce downloading as a feature. Now search results for "Netflix download" all talk about the built in feature as opposed to teaching how to rip the DRM off the downloaded file.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#205

Post by gtvwill »

fsloth wrote: post #194
PreInternet01 wrote: post #29

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

‘But above all, make sure not to confuse a "pirated copy" with a "lost sale". In 99% of cases, the Venn diagram of those has very little overlapping area.’ The non-overlapping are is likely non-trivial. There are surprising many shops that use professional software for client projects, could afford the license, but that prefer pirated copy to paying actual license fee. Ofc persecuting non-professional users is pointl…

Lol everytime I read this argument I think of the software VirtualDJ. It was notorious for being the DJ software to use about a decade and a half ago as pirate copies were everywhere! Fast forward to today and you can read post after post from ex pirate user that's now a paid user. VirtualDJ have one of the more expensive software licenses on the market in that sector too. I wonder if many other software companies have had similar experiences?

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#206

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

PreInternet01 wrote: post #29

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

This depends on the market. I know a handful of people who got out of the VST plugin market because cracks were killing them financially.

VSTs are pretty niche and the market is mostly people without much money. But you can find cracks being used in top studios, so...

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#207

Post by no_time »

banana_giraffe wrote: post #182
no_time wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That or you can do what studios/rights holders so with movies and poison the well with broken downloads, bogus files, etc. Can you provide some proof of this happening? I'm curious because I've always thought about this but never actually encountered it in the wild.

I've not seen studios do this (which doesn't prove they don't, of course) It is, however, _very_ common for different groups to use unreleased or recently release movies to release a video that's just a sign post. Either the URL shown in the video leads to a malware site, or a site that charges you to see the full video, itself a scam of some degree. For instance, you'll see this: "name": "A Man Called Otto.2023.720p…

Yeah good catch. I couldn't find an example on public trackers, but the one you mentioned does exist on DHT.

At least it's not made by the "official" WDC.

For the curious, the file directs the victim to the link below. Open at own risk.

echo "otto-dellac-nam-a/8545047tt/hctaw/zyx.llufseivom//:sptth" | rev

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#208

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #54
PreInternet01 wrote: post #29

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

There was a videogame that got famous because it was pirated, it was a management game about setting up a gaming company. Turns out, the pirated copy had a special feature where the player would feel immense economic pressure from piracy, so a bunch of players asked how to win against this, it was pretty hard and really fun for people who knew what was going on. Point is, you could hide an Easter Egg for pirated vers…

The obvious risk with that approach is that if people do not realize that this applies only to the pirated version, you're risking bad reviews, which can cost you actual sales (you don't win anything just by keeping people from pirating your software, you only win if someone who is willing to buy but prefers to pirate chooses to buy instead).

I believe there were several games that had a reputation for being horribly buggy that was at least partially the result of pirated versions having bugs intentionally introduced by the copy protection.

I believe the game you mentioned made it really obvious what was happening and why to avoid that.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#209

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #185

Ignore all the “piracy is actually wonderful” posts. Depending on your industry and product, you can lose a great deal of revenue from piracy. Circumventing licensing restrictions, “sharing” keys, customers pretending to be other customers to avoid paying support agreements, I’ve seen it all. Some people view avoiding paying you as a legitimate way to do business, and will happily do so if they can get away with it.…

> you can lose a great deal of revenue from piracy.

This argument falls apart when you recognize that people that pirate weren't going to pay anyways. Piracy isn't a lost sale. A lack of piracy doesn't mean more sales, it means fewer users.

Yes, I pirated Photoshop (Who didn't?), but if I couldn't pirate Photoshop, the alternative was never going to be buying Photoshop, it would be using GIMP or something else.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#210

Post by fsloth »

gtvwill wrote: post #205
fsloth wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

‘But above all, make sure not to confuse a "pirated copy" with a "lost sale". In 99% of cases, the Venn diagram of those has very little overlapping area.’ The non-overlapping are is likely non-trivial. There are surprising many shops that use professional software for client projects, could afford the license, but that prefer pirated copy to paying actual license fee. Ofc persecuting non-professional users is pointl…

Lol everytime I read this argument I think of the software VirtualDJ. It was notorious for being the DJ software to use about a decade and a half ago as pirate copies were everywhere! Fast forward to today and you can read post after post from ex pirate user that's now a paid user. VirtualDJ have one of the more expensive software licenses on the market in that sector too. I wonder if many other software companies ha…

That describes the progression from a poor hobby user to a more affluent hobbyist/pro. The market I know and meant (CAD) there is no such progression and the way to make the pirate users licensed users is to give them one call, offer a chance to buy an official license, and if this does not work inform the authorities. Legal procedures though likely need a way bigger org than 15 persons.
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