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Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

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Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#61
post #54

How much certainty is there that the Iranians actually spoofed the GPS signal? How much evidence is there to overturn the null hypothesis (being that the GPS signal was either jammed, or the plane simply crash-landed inside Iran)

I would love to know the answer to this. It seems that people are taking Iran at their word.

If you did capture an enemy's drone though sheer luck, isn't it in your best interest to tell the world that the cause was the exact opposite?

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#62
post #55

All these complex and sophisticated attacks seem like too much work. It looks like the author either omits a step from the attack where the SecurID compromise allowed someone access to flight control systems or that RSA has a master key/method for breaking any RSA encrypted data. I think the drone ran out of fuel. The flight control system prevented a stall by trading altitude for speed. Some emergency collision code…

I think he's arguing that the attack in which SecurID was compromised also resulted in the red key being compromised.

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#63
post #55

All these complex and sophisticated attacks seem like too much work. It looks like the author either omits a step from the attack where the SecurID compromise allowed someone access to flight control systems or that RSA has a master key/method for breaking any RSA encrypted data. I think the drone ran out of fuel. The flight control system prevented a stall by trading altitude for speed. Some emergency collision code…

Right - no one wants to consider this null hypothesis. Not exciting enough, I suppose. Actually spoofing GPS - which would involve masking the actual GPS signal and producing the precise nanosecond differentials from a simulated fleet of satellites needed to give a false location, seems highly unbelievable.

GPS jamming is possible, which may have led to a loss of nav (although I would have thought there may be some inertial guidance), but either way, the guidance-and-control system probably just leveled off for a smooth crash landing. (hence the way the iranians not-so-cleverly hid the underside of the UAV in anti-american propoganda posters)

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#64
post #55

All these complex and sophisticated attacks seem like too much work. It looks like the author either omits a step from the attack where the SecurID compromise allowed someone access to flight control systems or that RSA has a master key/method for breaking any RSA encrypted data. I think the drone ran out of fuel. The flight control system prevented a stall by trading altitude for speed. Some emergency collision code…

I think he's arguing that the attack in which SecurID was compromised also resulted in the red key being compromised.

Is the "red key" real or mythical?

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#65
post #54

How much certainty is there that the Iranians actually spoofed the GPS signal? How much evidence is there to overturn the null hypothesis (being that the GPS signal was either jammed, or the plane simply crash-landed inside Iran)

It's unlikely that the drone relies exclusively on GPS. If the designers believe the red key to be axiomatically secure, it's not an unreasonable assumption for them to say "We'll believe GPS while it's present. Only if it's not present will we fall back to inertial navigation" (or whatever). Obviously, a spoofed signal would be hugely problematic for that system.

And yes, Occam's Razor does point to a crash-landing rather than a hack, but a GPS crack isn't unlikely enough to be completely discounted.

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#66
post #63
post #55

All these complex and sophisticated attacks seem like too much work. It looks like the author either omits a step from the attack where the SecurID compromise allowed someone access to flight control systems or that RSA has a master key/method for breaking any RSA encrypted data. I think the drone ran out of fuel. The flight control system prevented a stall by trading altitude for speed. Some emergency collision code…

Right - no one wants to consider this null hypothesis. Not exciting enough, I suppose. Actually spoofing GPS - which would involve masking the actual GPS signal and producing the precise nanosecond differentials from a simulated fleet of satellites needed to give a false location, seems highly unbelievable. GPS jamming is possible, which may have led to a loss of nav (although I would have thought there may be some i…

>Actually spoofing GPS - which would involve masking the actual GPS signal and producing the precise nanosecond differentials from a simulated fleet of satellites needed to give a false location, seems highly unbelievable.

Literally the plot of the James Bond movie Tomorrow Never Dies.

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#67
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people talk about Iran it's more about the things that are, by any definition, wrong, than their traditional or religious choice. You simply cannot, in any modern society, discriminate against someone because it happens to be a woman, or throw stone at someone until they die because you didn't like his opinion. You can defend ideals, you cannot defend barbarism. Some of the things these people do (and others in…

The US and UK overthrew Iran's democratically elected secular government, installing the Shah. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%C3%A9tat ) Us Anglo-Americans are in no moral position to judge Iranians (or anyone else really), since our governments are the cause of so many of their misfortunes. (Imagine if China one day did similar to the US; how far would we regress in terms of hard-won civil rights…

Your link goes nowhere: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27état

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#68
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's arguing that the attack in which SecurID was compromised also resulted in the red key being compromised.

Is the "red key" real or mythical?

There's a secret key involved in the anti-spoofing part of GPS, but I don't know if it's actually called a "red key" by people who use it.

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#69
post #54

How much certainty is there that the Iranians actually spoofed the GPS signal? How much evidence is there to overturn the null hypothesis (being that the GPS signal was either jammed, or the plane simply crash-landed inside Iran)

AvWeek is a more reliable source than the blogs repeating breathless "OMG IRAN SPOOFED GPS" stories. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckC...

Re: Drone captured by Iran may mean military GPS RSA "red key" has been compromised

#70
post #55

All these complex and sophisticated attacks seem like too much work. It looks like the author either omits a step from the attack where the SecurID compromise allowed someone access to flight control systems or that RSA has a master key/method for breaking any RSA encrypted data. I think the drone ran out of fuel. The flight control system prevented a stall by trading altitude for speed. Some emergency collision code…

I think he's arguing that the attack in which SecurID was compromised also resulted in the red key being compromised.

How? Why would RSA Inc. have a copy of a secret military crypto key?

(Edit: I see a few other people have made the same point below.)

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