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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#261

Post by wpietri »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #22
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #6

> I have come to a realization that I don't really enjoy Software Engineering(& the processes that it comes with) but I do love programming & solving problems. I can almost guarantee that you’re just at the wrong company. Some software companies can turn even the simplest tasks into a grueling series of processes, endless meetings, and joint work across a big number of “stakeholders”. These companies will take the jo…

> I can almost guarantee that you’re just at the wrong company. Even if this is true (which it most likely is), there's no guarantee the company you move to (in your quest of finding "the right company") won't either a) also be the wrong company again right off the bat or b) become the wrong company again. I've kind of just given up. I've accepted I'm basically a "technical plumber". Take data from this system/vendor…

Yeah, the older I get, the more I'm able to see how companies could be so much better, so much more effective. But that's not something executives really want most of the time. So I think what will eventually drive me to retire is not getting tired of making things, but an inability to put up with the gap between what's possible and what's actually going on.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#262

Post by redcat77777 »

pdntspa wrote: post #55

I love most of the things around writing code but absolutely despise all the people that have popped up around it. Software engineering feels like a jobs program where we let nontechnical freeloaders figure out how to insert themselves into our process. I think that part of the reason that software sucks so much now is that the people designing it don't love software and technology the way we do, and it shows. I thin…

in marketing companies "projects" were lead by people after sociology, they were called account managers - why?? now i have a product owner who's above me and has no technical background, never used a cms, after 8 months i understood finally that the dashboard iam discussing is a poor man's google analytics page, we are making it because for the last 2 years people were taking stuff from the database and presented web stats by hand - each day i get to uncover more and more and more stuff like that . those nontechnical people think that they are doing rocket science stuff. like genuinely.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#263

Post by brippalcharrid »

mejutoco wrote: post #173
xwdv wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> most people stuck in unhappy marriages are men If we are counting only heterosexual and 2 people marriages, wouldn't the number of people stuck in unhappy marriages be exactly 50% men and 50% women?

The [perceived] consequences of ending a marriage seem to provide more of a disincentive to men, so they are more likely to persist in a marriage that they feel they would be unable to leave (and then have to support multiple households, etc.). The fact that women (in the USA) are more than twice as likely to initiate a divorce seems to bear this out.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#264

Post by whateveracct »

whateveracct wrote: post #250

I agree completely and have felt this way for years. And this is despite me getting a job at a "good job" (good benefits, generally respectful etc, cool language and tech). I went fully remote way before COVID. I've figured out how to cut my work with sawdust to get paid at work, and nowadays I'd say I spend more hours per workday on personal projects (programming and otherwise) than company work. So basically, I rec…

I'll add something to this here instead of editing:

It's performance review season (feels like it always is now - twice a year and check-ins) and I do find myself not able to do those as well anymore. Because it's constantly about growth and desire for growth.

I don't want to grow professionally anymore. It's not zero sum, but effort and focus spent on my career as a backend guy isn't going to benefit me compared to, say, playing guitar or drawing.

So I have to bullshit my way through that with fake statements. In reality, I'll continue being as good as I currently am. Which is pretty good and people seem to be happy with my services.

But the way companies use growth to effectively make you orient your mindset in their favor is definitely annoying. I see you plain, monster.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#265

Post by redcat77777 »

floydian10 wrote: post #163
pdntspa wrote: post #55

I love most of the things around writing code but absolutely despise all the people that have popped up around it. Software engineering feels like a jobs program where we let nontechnical freeloaders figure out how to insert themselves into our process. I think that part of the reason that software sucks so much now is that the people designing it don't love software and technology the way we do, and it shows. I thin…

Totally agree. I have some hope that the current high-profile layoffs makes (at least some) non-technical people to leave the industry. I have even started seeing more and more developers that have 0 interest in programming and are in it for the money, and it shows.

i have interest in programming and i am in for the money, but the money is too small for the madness of the office

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#266

Post by elil17 »

xwdv wrote: post #157
elil17 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>most people stuck in unhappy marriages are men That is wildly untrue. The research on whether men or women are more satisfied in their marriages shows that they have about the same levels of satisfaction. For example: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jomf.12077 Not really sure why the demographics of philosophers effects the impact of the statement. Most philosophers are white, would it have been more imp…

If you could bring race into it somehow then yes the statement might seem more based in historical precedence, rather than some idealistic fantasy world of hyper diversity, assuming most unhappily married men are also white.

I don't really get why any of that matters though. Can't you just appreciate the sentiment regardless of how it is phrased? Seems like your trying to make it political when it just isn't.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#267

Post by wpietri »

jcbrand wrote: post #94
digitalsushi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three years ago I was stuck at a huge fortune 100 with all the ceremonies, business language, and paycheck collectors. I started to shop around. I found an amazing place, a company that was a software company not not a company that happened to write some software. The interviews went amazing, everything was Star Trek utopian future amazing, it was like the fantasy I had about where I wanted to work had manifested. I…

> so I hung out in the lobby for several hours waiting for anyone brave enough to get me to the badge people Did you consider asking someone going in or out to help you get a badge or to put you into contact with the right person? Sounds like you passively waited for someone to come and help you, which might be fine for a short while, but eventually it's better to take action. I've never heard of a "professional benc…

It happens for all sorts of reasons. Often managers are seen as important not because of what they produce, but how big their teams and budgets are. In that circumstance, hiring people is important, but getting anything useful out of them is secondary.

Or it could be pure chaos. Years ago I joined a startup that was scaling rapidly. The interview process was exciting, the people seemed great, and the compensation was very appealing. So I go in on my first day, eager to get to work. After sitting in the lobby a while, I'm told that they aren't ready for me, and could I come back?

The next day I come in, and they again say they aren't ready, they're very very sorry, and that I should come back tomorrow. So I do.

The third day I figure, great, now I'm going to get to work. But once again, nobody's ready for me. No desk, no computer, no nothing. They weakly suggest that maybe I could find a corner somewhere and read manuals?

I politely tell them that I think this isn't a match, GTFO, and never come back. They go out of business a few years later.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#268

Post by davidw »

itake wrote: post #248
davidw wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real "unicorns" are * Small/medium size companies where you recognize most everyone even if you don't work with them. There are enough people so you don't have to do things you're not qualified for like in the very early days of a startup. * Steady growth, but not crazy, venture fueled moonshots. * Selling something that earns enough money to grow the business in a fairly organic way. I worked in a place…

I’ve worked at 3-4 small companies (less than 30 employees) and I’ve never been happy. There is always 1 person that makes my life miserable (constantly rejecting my ideas, ego is larger than their experience level, etc). I’ve worked at a 100, and two 1,000 engineer count companies and I never met any “coding princesses” in those roles. I think part of the problem that triggers this is in small companies, one enginee…

Yeah I could see that. The place in question where I worked was developing some new products, so we didn't have that kind of situation where someone was gatekeeping or otherwise being unpleasant.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#269

Post by torben-friis »

matsemann wrote: post #160
torben-friis wrote: post #25

I am the exact opposite. I mean, I don’t like processes and meetings, but I do like the planning and architecture part much more than I like actually writing code. Usually, if your mind is decently organized, I find that the problem is solved before writing a single line of code. If that happens, then the actual part of writing becomes dull and mechanical - the problem has already been solved. I’ve never understood p…

Hmm, I often feel lots of important details or edge cases are only discovered when you start programming. It's a reason waterfall was abandoned. Planning, prototyping and then making a more informed decision is my goto approach, instead of planning forever. Actually, I often feel the architects that think they've "fully solved the problem" are full of themselves, and just not smart enough to realize all the things th…

> It's a reason waterfall was abandoned.

Waterfall vs agile is not really about how much effort you put into design, it’s about how long the plan-code-reassess cycle is.

You should not plan a whole year ahead and then act, it’s better to plan the next couple of weeks.

But you still need to define how the work for those weeks fits in the system, the load it’s expected to take, the metrics that tell you it’s working, how to roll it back if you screw up, etc.

I find that many people use agile as an excuse to ignore these questions and just pile up fixes on top of prototypes.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#270

Post by FatActor »

What you are describing is:

Hobby vs. career.

You basically want all the fun creative parts without the process and review and maintenance required for a product that has responsibilities.

It's like building a shed in your back yard vs. building a skyscraper in a city.

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