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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More context at https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=29969359

pls name a company, I want a job at that company

Seriously, if I could do all of my work without people trying to talk my ear off all day and let me keep my work life and social life truly separate, that sounds ideal to me.

"Oh the tech was textbook perfect but I didn't like that nobody wanted to stand around and bullshit all day"

Like bruh.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> agile has killed the happiness...meetings...rituals...meta-work...not actual productivity. All of that isn't actual agile. It's Fauxgile and has nothing to do with what agile is about, which is about removing impediments to productivity, removing meetings (why were there standups? Because they shouldn't exist in the first place, and if you absolutely positively can't avoid them then at least make them as short as p…

Agile is like socialism at times.

I'm not sure what this means.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#204

Things were better before agile / scrum / annoying processes took over. Not all companies were waterfall, they kind of just "did things" without any well defined process. This was how things were until roughly the early 2010's. I remember working for weeks, after a couple of whiteboard sessions. You'd meet about what you were going to do, work on it, and come back a week or two later. Occasionally there would be info…

> You'd meet about what you were going to do, work on it, and come back a week or two later. Occasionally there would be informal check ins. Planning meeting, ad hoc meeting doing the work then weekly/bi-weekly show and tells to show progress. Sounds like...some version of agile? Remember agile and the XP movement that preceded it was invented by software makers, who had observed the pattern you describe and decided…

It was true agile, not "Agile" in the sense we see today (empty ceremonies, time wasting meetings, micromanagement, endless jira tickets...)

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#205
Analyst

Researcher

Artist

Analyst meaning a person who works with something like Jupyter Notebooks or VBA in Excel to do non-recurring work. Researcher meaning an academic or corporate researcher who tries experiments in code to prove our concepts. Artist meaning a person making fun things like art, cosplay, entertainment, games that can’t hurt people and don’t need high reliability.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#206

I am the exact opposite. I mean, I don’t like processes and meetings, but I do like the planning and architecture part much more than I like actually writing code. Usually, if your mind is decently organized, I find that the problem is solved before writing a single line of code. If that happens, then the actual part of writing becomes dull and mechanical - the problem has already been solved. I’ve never understood p…

This is when programming really clicked for me: I learned that if the problem isn't well understood and solved before you sit down to write a line of code, then its not time to code yet. Model the problem space first.

And as another commenter chimed in, its true that some problems only emerge once you start writing the code. But that's alright, its part of the process. The planning isn't so much to figure out every problem ever, but to model the known problems so that programming the solutions can begin. I go back and forth between white-boarding and coding as things emerge.

I always tell myself that if I'm sitting at the keyboard and I don't know what to type, it's time to go back to the whiteboard because I'm not understanding the problem.

edit: clarity

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#207

Things were better before agile / scrum / annoying processes took over. Not all companies were waterfall, they kind of just "did things" without any well defined process. This was how things were until roughly the early 2010's. I remember working for weeks, after a couple of whiteboard sessions. You'd meet about what you were going to do, work on it, and come back a week or two later. Occasionally there would be info…

That's exactly right. There were good and bad things. Some method was needed, but too much method is lethal to productivity. Agile was sold as less rigid method, but for many shops it's simply too much.

You need first to make it work, later to make it perform, then to optimize it, finally to trash and replace it. Many go right away to optimize then stall.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> agile has killed the happiness...meetings...rituals...meta-work...not actual productivity. All of that isn't actual agile. It's Fauxgile and has nothing to do with what agile is about, which is about removing impediments to productivity, removing meetings (why were there standups? Because they shouldn't exist in the first place, and if you absolutely positively can't avoid them then at least make them as short as p…

Can't upvote this enough times. Time and time again you see this: people say "I hate agile because of X, Y and Z" where X, Y, and Z - at best - are orthogonal to the idea of Agile, and at worst (and perhaps even "ordinarily") are complete anathema to the spirit of Agile. Sorry, but anybody who thinks Agile is about velocity, story points, planning poker, standups, retrospectives, backlog grooming, etc. has been sold…

But if you are joining an Agile shop what do you get on average?

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a slight implication because it only covers men that women are the source of unhappiness (e.g. the nagging wife trope), but I agree it's trivial and likely unintentional. Agree with sibling, just as applicable as "happy married people are happy partners, unhappily married people are great philosophers".

[flagged]

I'm sorry, it really isn't a big deal and I don't think anyone would be triggered or offended by the quote! And of course historical context matters. The poster was just proffering a friendly reminder that to push society forward it's helpful to consider these things.

It's just like changing our default branches from master to main, honestly probably not a huge deal to any rationale person, but the cost is negligible so why not?

It's possible to be empathetic and considerate, making minor adjustments (and also not judging those who innocently don't) without being the "woke" police!

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