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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it's misogynistic because when I heard it first it's implied that my happiness is tied to a woman. Since I'm happily married and very much in love I know that without her I'd probably end up being a philosopher pondering problems without answers to run away from the trauma of losing her. I've been through it before :)

And how is implying your happiness is tied to a woman misogynistic?

It reduces women to instruments to serve men's happiness.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#133
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three years ago I was stuck at a huge fortune 100 with all the ceremonies, business language, and paycheck collectors. I started to shop around. I found an amazing place, a company that was a software company not not a company that happened to write some software. The interviews went amazing, everything was Star Trek utopian future amazing, it was like the fantasy I had about where I wanted to work had manifested. I…

I’m really confused. What was the motivation of the hiring company here?

More context at https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=29969359

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#135
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three years ago I was stuck at a huge fortune 100 with all the ceremonies, business language, and paycheck collectors. I started to shop around. I found an amazing place, a company that was a software company not not a company that happened to write some software. The interviews went amazing, everything was Star Trek utopian future amazing, it was like the fantasy I had about where I wanted to work had manifested. I…

I’m really confused. What was the motivation of the hiring company here?

Maybe hitting some hiring target?

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#136
That's me... I loved coding, I did it in my spare time. Then I got a job it's been downhill since then. I thought maybe I was a junior. Then I thought I was at the wrong company. Then I told him maybe I was working in the role or programming stack?.

But that's not it, I like writing code, I like refactoring code, I like debugging code but I don't like that it'd be held as a knife to my throat every day forever.

At my job there has never been a slow day. At one of my past job our manager had to go for 2 weeks and that was the most productive we had ever been. We shipped more , built more , collaborated more, and it all felt like a breeze.

Right now I feel as engineers we have been subjugated to being a coding monkey. You are told what to do, when to do, how to do and how much you should have done by now. You are monitored, of made to dance, and forced to be glad that you even have the chance.

I've spoken to people who have been in the industry for 10 15 years and they say this was not how it used to be

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#137
Maybe most of the contemporary practice of 'software engineering' is playing house.

For example, "refactoring" used to mean a kind of later code changes to a working system, and tools to support it. Now I more often hear of it being used to mean what I'll call "fudge-factoring", to try to finish or redo a mess the same person made (possibly the previous week) so that they could pretend a sprint task was done, for metrics/peer-pressure reasons.

Genuine software engineering is hard, but there are crafts to it, and you can find satisfaction and even aesthetic appeal in the crafts. And it can let you accomplish things that you either couldn't accomplish otherwise, or couldn't accomplish as easily.

Maybe a comparison with programming is helpful. Programming is hard, but there's satisfying craft to it when you're doing it well, and when things come together.

Now imagine the programming is being done badly -- most of your time is spent debugging, structural changes to the immediate code base are difficult, the tools are lousy, you have to spend other time figuring out some low-quality bureaucracy bloat other people made, people who don't know what they're doing have created a lot of wrong-headed theatre around pretending to address these programming-level problems, etc.

That programming done badly is a lot like software engineering being done badly.

Could a mythical software engineering done well be what you want? What if it wasn't piles of bureaucracy, but some magic professionalism that extended what you could accomplish with programming, removing some limits you found on what you could build before?

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#138

> I have come to a realization that I don't really enjoy Software Engineering(& the processes that it comes with) but I do love programming & solving problems. I can almost guarantee that you’re just at the wrong company. Some software companies can turn even the simplest tasks into a grueling series of processes, endless meetings, and joint work across a big number of “stakeholders”. These companies will take the jo…

What are these unicorn companies? I've worked at 7 companies (and interviewed at many more) and never seen anything close to this mythical "company that values programming and real productivity". I feel like they must be exceptionally rare.

I’ve worked at about 10 companies and half of them didn’t have the soul sucking processes (though all of them did have process).

The correlation I see is big companies have processes that kill productivity, though I did work for a big company that was able to avoid it for a long time (new leadership did end up killing productivity right before I left).

And for what it’s worth there was no correlation with “agile”. I’ve seen good and bad agile.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#140
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a slight implication because it only covers men that women are the source of unhappiness (e.g. the nagging wife trope), but I agree it's trivial and likely unintentional. Agree with sibling, just as applicable as "happy married people are happy partners, unhappily married people are great philosophers".

[flagged]

Not being a dipshit is not the same thing as "bending to people's demands."
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