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Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

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Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#51
post #8

You might consider offering more free or cheap versions, like a student edition (cheap with no proof required) and a free trial. Wolfram, for instance, does both. Not many real companies will cheat, and it's better to have users who can't pay using an official version than a cracked one. Perhaps they start using it in an un-funded skunkworks project, then buy a full license when the project gets funded.

This shows that you have never dealt with companies in 3rd world countries. When money is tight, which is always in those countries, there is not a cheap-enough price that you can make them pay. They want the benefit of the product but they do nit want to pay anything for it. So, a free trial version in those places, will turn into a perpetual "free" trial. Same for "no proof needed" student/academic versions. Unfort…

Yes, people who can't pay will keep renewing the free trial indefinitely. Since you weren't going to get any money out of them anyway, there's no loss. More people using your sw costs you nothing, and has various benefits, including:

- if those people someday move to a big company that can afford it, they'll be familiar with your sw

- they may blog about it or publish results from it, giving you free advertising

- reduces the market for a lower-cost version of your product, making new competitors less likely to form

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#52
This almost sounds like one of the companies I used to work for. I also would occassionally find our software, cracked, online. We would download the cracked version into a container and debug it. Reverse engineer the crack that reverse engineered our protection.

We never took it too serious. You don't have to lose sleep over it but you also shouldn't completely ignore it. Just refactoring the copy protection ever few release cycles. Most of the cracks were using Windows APIs to access entrypoints to flip variables. Simply renaming, moving them, or adding removing properties was enough to throw them off for a while.

We figured out some of our customers were using cracked editions without paying for more seats. The support calls were interesting because we told them the bug was fixed but they were super reluctant to update. We'd pass the message off to the accounts managers and let them wrangle with it. This was more prevalent in developing countries where pirating for business use wasn't considered a big deal.

I tried to bring up a low cost edition at our company meeting but it was shot down. The numbers wouldn't work. Business users get training provided; casual users would swamp our helpdesk in lieu of actual training.

The plan should always be to get those pirated users into actual users, unless the country they're in is embargoed, funny story. From reading the piracy forum thread I found many were using our software for job training in hopes of gaining foothold in the field. Similar to how Photoshop was everywhere in the early web design days.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#53
Whatever you decide to do, don't add hurdles that in any way inconvenience legitimate users or take away their functionality (e.g. offline usage). Those measures will be cracked sooner or later and it's only going breed resentment among your legitimate users.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#54

Congratulations! Having cracked versions out there indicates that your software is both useful and notable, which is a point where many developers would love to arrive at, maybe, one day. As to what to do about it, there are two basic tracks, neither of which is incompatible with the other: 1. The legal route: notifying distribution sites that they're hosting content in violation of copyright law, requesting takedown…

There was a videogame that got famous because it was pirated, it was a management game about setting up a gaming company.

Turns out, the pirated copy had a special feature where the player would feel immense economic pressure from piracy, so a bunch of players asked how to win against this, it was pretty hard and really fun for people who knew what was going on.

Point is, you could hide an Easter Egg for pirated versions (can you detect the lack of signatures?)

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#55

Nothing. Almost all of the research points to piracy having zero impact on sales for example, https://corsearch.com/content-library/blog/does-piracy-impac... It's been shown time and again in gaming no matter what you do people will crack it and your measures to stop them will have more negative impact on your paying customers than it does on pirates, see Denuvo. Honestly, the best thing is probably working on your c…

I believe denuvo is by now more a success story than a failure, there's not many groups cracking the latest versions of denuvo anymore.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#56
I've recently reverse engineered a bunch of commercial software we pay for. They encrypt values in text configuration files and leave no way for us to template the configuration files with configuration management (Chef, Ansible, etc). Most of the time I'm working with Java. I've noticed several common patterns:

1) Typically obfuscation is not used, but even when it is used, it's easy to find what you're looking for. They're going to be using JCE or BouncyCastle for encryption. Look for the relevant classes.

2) The key is nearly always hard coded as a string constant that is not unique to the installation or customer. Super easy, and often discoverable with just the 'strings' command line utility. I would find your concats of chars and other silly schemes if you did that, but it would slow me down a bit.

3) IV is never used correctly with AES. It's always a static value, usually 0.

4) License keys are usually encrypted with the same scheme, but their format of entitlements takes some extra effort to discover. I occasionally must reverse engineer this as well to understand the limitations. For example, stupid licenses lock to IP address or a BIOS uuid, complicating a disaster recovery plan.

My favorite encounter was a class file, in the spirit of OOP, dedicated to licenses (ie License.class). It was not obfuscated in any way and had both the load() and save() methods included. All one must do is write your own Java class (or use Groovy interpreter), include the vendor jar in your classpath, set your license entitles and call save().

A real WTF is that SAP will encrypt the contents of _your_ database with simple substitution ciphers. If you want to query it for insight, you're going to need their simple character shifting/replacing scheme.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#58

Nothing. Almost all of the research points to piracy having zero impact on sales for example, https://corsearch.com/content-library/blog/does-piracy-impac... It's been shown time and again in gaming no matter what you do people will crack it and your measures to stop them will have more negative impact on your paying customers than it does on pirates, see Denuvo. Honestly, the best thing is probably working on your c…

I believe denuvo is by now more a success story than a failure, there's not many groups cracking the latest versions of denuvo anymore.

That's not consistent with anything I've seen or read in the last 5 years

https://www.wired.com/story/empress-drm-cracking-denuvo-vide... https://www.pcgamer.com/denuvo-cracks-2019/

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#59
The solution here is pretty simple: make your software free and open source. Transition your business model to paid support tiers, or paid hosted/managed offerings. I have been advocating for the promotion of FOSS software for years, and this model has worked very well for many software businesses. People will always crack and pirate software; not only will be a never-ending cat and mouse for you, but also inhibits the proliferation of truly free-as-in-freedom software.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#60
Additionally, as another commenter mentioned, piracy is not theft. Someone who pirates your software will almost certainly never pay for it; it's not a lost revenue opportunity. Consider it free promotion and popularization of your product: any publicity is good publicity.
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