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Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

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Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#31

Post by hh3k0 »

ballenf wrote: post #19

Double down efforts to survey users and potential users. Keep making the product better. Consider the pirate option as a competitor. Don’t demonize your user base, but don’t be afraid to go after any institution you know is using pirated version. Build multiple telemetry code paths in your code — if you can just get IP addresses of offenders you’ll have way more info than now.

> Don’t demonize your user base […] Build multiple telemetry code paths in your code — if you can just get IP addresses of offenders you’ll have way more info than now.

Sorry, but from where I stand that absolutely looks like demonizing the user base.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#33

Post by zihotki »

SecurityMinded wrote: post #20
tlb wrote: post #8

You might consider offering more free or cheap versions, like a student edition (cheap with no proof required) and a free trial. Wolfram, for instance, does both. Not many real companies will cheat, and it's better to have users who can't pay using an official version than a cracked one. Perhaps they start using it in an un-funded skunkworks project, then buy a full license when the project gets funded.

This shows that you have never dealt with companies in 3rd world countries. When money is tight, which is always in those countries, there is not a cheap-enough price that you can make them pay. They want the benefit of the product but they do nit want to pay anything for it. So, a free trial version in those places, will turn into a perpetual "free" trial. Same for "no proof needed" student/academic versions. Unfort…

There is a solution - fully or partially cloud based software. But there are limitations and not everyone will be happy.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#34

Post by sph »

shon wrote: post #28

These aren’t your customers. The user who is willing to stomach the time and risks associated with cracked software is NOT your target market anyway. This is essentially a free trial program for “aspirational users” who will circulate it for you. I’ve had my software (games) pirated, and been a pirate in my youth. Now I wouldn’t consider pirating because I have more money than time now. I suspect your actual addressa…

> The user who is willing to stomach the time and risks associated with cracked software is NOT your target market anyway.

I vehemently disagree. Cracked users of commercial software ARE your target market that, for any reason, can't afford to pay you. They would if they could.

When I was a broke teenager, I pirated a lot of software, games and music I later paid for when I had enough money to do so.

Piracy can be annoying, but it is also an underrated indicator that some people really like or need your product so much they'd rather put up with the discomfort of piracy instead of going to the competition. I wonder if this is also an indicator to very expensive software that they might increase their paying user base by lowering their price. You might be leaving money on the table, maybe it's time for a flash sale.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#35

Post by nominatronic »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #25
bitexploder wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even be cheeky. Detect when the software is cracked (signature/binary hash changed) and message the user “we see your version is corrupt or cracked, you may want to reinstall. If you are using this software without paying for it ”. You can invest some time in obfuscation and more frequent releases, but I would not spend a lot of effort on it.

You could always do the Windows 10 Activation model. If you don't activate Windows 10, you have no ability to personalize your PC (change wallpaper, colors, Lock Screen image, etc.) But you can still use it - which makes it annoying, but still functional. After a few weeks without activating, it also adds an always-visible watermark warning to "Activate your PC." But it still lets you use it. Perhaps the OP could do…

The cracked versions will simply disable all these anti-features.

All you will do is annoy legitimate users.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#36

Post by agilob »

shon wrote: post #28

These aren’t your customers. The user who is willing to stomach the time and risks associated with cracked software is NOT your target market anyway. This is essentially a free trial program for “aspirational users” who will circulate it for you. I’ve had my software (games) pirated, and been a pirate in my youth. Now I wouldn’t consider pirating because I have more money than time now. I suspect your actual addressa…

>This is essentially a free trial program for “aspirational users” who will circulate it for you.

Do you provide demo (limited functionality) and trial (full version with limited time) options?

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#37

Post by luckylion »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #25
bitexploder wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even be cheeky. Detect when the software is cracked (signature/binary hash changed) and message the user “we see your version is corrupt or cracked, you may want to reinstall. If you are using this software without paying for it ”. You can invest some time in obfuscation and more frequent releases, but I would not spend a lot of effort on it.

You could always do the Windows 10 Activation model. If you don't activate Windows 10, you have no ability to personalize your PC (change wallpaper, colors, Lock Screen image, etc.) But you can still use it - which makes it annoying, but still functional. After a few weeks without activating, it also adds an always-visible watermark warning to "Activate your PC." But it still lets you use it. Perhaps the OP could do…

The risk in any of those measures is mis-identifying a copy as "cracked" and refusing to function fully for a paying customer. Sometimes that customer will be understanding, but sometimes they'll just plain angry that you're selling them a license for thousands of dollars and then mess with their ability to get things done. And they usually won't be silent about it either.

You can totally do that when you're Microsoft because pretty much everybody hates you already but you have essentially a monopoly so what can they do? But it's very different when you're in a market where alternatives exist.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#38

Post by CJefferson »

bitexploder wrote: post #18
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #12

I’d suggest taking a page from Adobe and Microsoft. They fight pirating, and that prevents it from becoming absolutely endemic, but they don’t really lose massive amounts of sleep over the cracks, because every cracked copy is training people to use their software. Sort of “The Old Dope Peddler” model. It’s not really correct to assume every cracked copy is a lost sale. Instead, think of it as indoctrination of possi…

Even be cheeky. Detect when the software is cracked (signature/binary hash changed) and message the user “we see your version is corrupt or cracked, you may want to reinstall. If you are using this software without paying for it ”. You can invest some time in obfuscation and more frequent releases, but I would not spend a lot of effort on it.

One good idea is to time-delay that response -- hackers generally won't sit around for a month, or even a week, and see if your app will start responding differently.

Of course, they'll probably re-hack it at that point, but often the first hacked version ends up being the most spread around one.

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#39

Post by raverbashing »

bitexploder wrote: post #18
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #12

I’d suggest taking a page from Adobe and Microsoft. They fight pirating, and that prevents it from becoming absolutely endemic, but they don’t really lose massive amounts of sleep over the cracks, because every cracked copy is training people to use their software. Sort of “The Old Dope Peddler” model. It’s not really correct to assume every cracked copy is a lost sale. Instead, think of it as indoctrination of possi…

Even be cheeky. Detect when the software is cracked (signature/binary hash changed) and message the user “we see your version is corrupt or cracked, you may want to reinstall. If you are using this software without paying for it ”. You can invest some time in obfuscation and more frequent releases, but I would not spend a lot of effort on it.

You don't want to do this "immediately" after checking for pirated versions, that will be checked and cracked as well

Do it silently and maybe warn in a non-obvious way. But I wouldn't annoy the user too much

Parent is right, most of those pirating it wouldn't have bought it in the first place. Especially if it's a technical software with limited use (as opposed to a game, for example)

Re: Ask HN: We found a cracked version of our software on the web, now what?

#40

Post by grujicd »

einr wrote: post #11
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #7

> I'm not entirely sure what other information would be helpful to provide, but I was wondering if anyone has run into this into the past, and how it was mitigated. While we'll always have some piracy, we'd like to keep it to a minimum. I don't have answers but I have a few unusual ideas. I would suggest (perhaps as a "fun" way of dealing with it) looking into The Legend of Spyro style copy-protection. This is where,…

I would suggest (perhaps as a "fun" way of dealing with it) looking into The Legend of Spyro style copy-protection. This is where, rather than just depending on the small activation component, there are small checks throughout your code that cause little inexplicable annoyances constantly if a pirated copy is found. Maybe people try to print things and 1/3 of the page is blank. Maybe they try to save files and there'…

It's risky that some of "intentional bugs for pirates" end up working for paying users as well. Every software has bugs, is it really a good idea to create extra ones, some of which might slip by?

At least this creates extra code paths and requires extra testing.

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