381–390 of 402 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think whoever „wins“, it would be necessary to have good interop at least. Currently, Rust devs are integrating core libs into native iOS apps by going the C route. All this work to make everything memory safe, and then this.
Which direction are you talking? If you want to link against Rust there is little choice but to use a C layer because it doesn’t have a stable ABI.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Conversely, will existing Obj-C (and hybrid Swift/Obj-C) apps be able to call the new Swift Foundation? And will it be binary-compatible with existing apps, or will Apple just ship a separate compatibility version of Foundation for use by legacy apps?
Yes, it’ll be binary compatible.
It looks like an important step in progressively retiring ObjC. Swift is built from the start with a ObC compatibility in mind, which is a source of much ugliness and inefficiency in the language. With the Swift team working in a value semantic first language (Val), I can kind of see where this is going. Really looking forward to OOP being phased out.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have never used IMP caching, and don't think the average developer uses this (aside from indirect use of Apple's frameworks). Otherwise: > A normal Objective-C message send is a bit slower, as we'd expect. Still, the speed of objc_msgSend continues to astound me. Considering that it performs a full hash table lookup followed by an indirect jump to the result, the fact that it runs in 2.6 nanoseconds is amazing. Tha…
> So it's 9 cycles vs what, one? I'm not sure what you're asking? What are you trying to compare?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Java, Kotlin and C++. I just tried this and... no C++. You can add the NDK and start building stuff with C++, but that's also exactly how the Rust offering works. If the result was actually a properly configured out of the box C++ development environment that would be pretty nice besides the Android stuff, but it isn't, the actual result out of the box is you get to pick Java or Kotlin. You can do C++ native develo…
Since when does Rust appear as language selection on the NDK installer? Has out of the box support on Android Studio for: - mixed language debbugging - project templates wizard - code completion and linting - JNI bindings generation - two way editing between native JNI wrappers and Java/Kotlin native method declaration - packaging of Android libraries for native code And for game developers, if they so which, plugins…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
By OOP I mean entangling of behavior and type hierarchy (mainstream class-based OOP aka. C++ OOP). Dot-notation and methods do not equate OOP. But of course, it depends on your definition. Pretty much anything can be called “OOP” if one wants to.
Ah so interfaces/traits/type classes hierarchies suddenly isn't OOP, nor dynamic /static method dispatch with type polymorphism, got it.
At any rate, I apologise for using such an ill-defined term as "OOP" in the first place. This terminology is so overladed and washed out at this point that it might sense to retire it altogether.
It looks like an important step in progressively retiring ObjC. Swift is built from the start with a ObC compatibility in mind, which is a source of much ugliness and inefficiency in the language. With the Swift team working in a value semantic first language (Val), I can kind of see where this is going. Really looking forward to OOP being phased out.
i don't think people working on val are part of the swift team anymore.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is just plain cynicism and dramatization. “Massive instability” lol as if anyone with a desktop OS of any sort in 2023 has had anything close to that kind of experience. Let me know when my scroll bar UI is lagging like it’s 2003 in Cupertino. I’m sure Jaguar had zero errors and had all the code audited by Steve Jobs himself to make sure it had top quality. And for real what indicator is there that Apple has low…
Agreed
Luckily I had a backup, but it was about a month old.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So it's 9 cycles vs what, one? I'm not sure what you're asking? What are you trying to compare?
I’m comparing a message send with a statically linked function call (or inlining, as mentioned by sibling comment).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
macOS and iOS not so much. Which is probably one of the reasons why apps for these platforms are often much better (or at least more polished) than say Windows apps.
In my view, "polish" is rather orthogonal. For trivial apps that just assemble the building blocks that come out of the box, I'd agree. Otherwise, I find the "native" developer experience (XCode, Swift compiler) to be rather unpleasant. Moreover, the economics of developing "natively" limit the amount of polish you can actually justify.
For example, a UI framework may implement good transition animations. That’s pretty typical. Write an extension to UINavigationController, or UIViewController (if you use UIKit) that implements these transitions, package it as a standalone project, and integrate it, or simply have project-specific baseline framework extensions.
That’s what I do. I have a ton of these packages[0].
It’s a fair bit of work, to do it yourself, but there are package[1] and extension[2] indexes. Caveat emptor.
[0] https://riftvalleysoftware.com/work/open-source-projects/