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Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

theguardian.com

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Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#121

Post by cycomanic »

credit_guy wrote: post #116
erulabs wrote: post #85

I've chatted with a few folks who have spent their entire lives working in climate science while being employed by the oil industry. They're some of the most moderate, intelligent, considered people I've ever talked to. And most people hear "a climate scientist who works for an oil company" and assumes they're the worst sort - a profiteer or a liar or a complicit drone. They're not leadership - they don't get to deci…

> Now... the leadership folks who commissioned these predictions and then ignored them... That's another matter! Ok, you made me curious. What were they supposed to do? Stop drilling and selling oil? Ask the government for increased taxes to take care of externalities? Dismantle the corporation? Just resign and go find a job in a different industry?

Well stop funding anti-(climate)-science disinformation campaigns would be a good start. Many of the current state of divisive politics and the incredible rise of conspiracy theories can be traced to the campaigns funded by big tobacco and big oil.

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#122

Post by [deleted] »

avgcorrection wrote: post #42
whatever1 wrote: post #5

I don’t understand what was the expectation. For Big Oil to start campaigning against their own product? We have legislative bodies that we literally elect and pay to do this job. Let’s stop the hypocrisy and look ourselves in the mirror.

Yes. Let’s look ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves why such corporate behavior is even legal in the first place. For-profit corporations—and really any kind of for-profit organization—should be made illegal. Through our legislative bodies. It’s that or extinction.

[deleted]

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#123

Post by abdullahkhalids »

credit_guy wrote: post #116
erulabs wrote: post #85

I've chatted with a few folks who have spent their entire lives working in climate science while being employed by the oil industry. They're some of the most moderate, intelligent, considered people I've ever talked to. And most people hear "a climate scientist who works for an oil company" and assumes they're the worst sort - a profiteer or a liar or a complicit drone. They're not leadership - they don't get to deci…

> Now... the leadership folks who commissioned these predictions and then ignored them... That's another matter! Ok, you made me curious. What were they supposed to do? Stop drilling and selling oil? Ask the government for increased taxes to take care of externalities? Dismantle the corporation? Just resign and go find a job in a different industry?

You know how when school budgets are cut, underpaid teachers spend money out of their own pockets to ensure students get what is needed? Or nurses stay far past their shifts to ensure critical patients get the care they need?

Unethical people don't realize that there are countless ethical people who make the right choices every day.

The answer to your questions, is yes to all of them.

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#124

Post by idontwantthis »

credit_guy wrote: post #116
erulabs wrote: post #85

I've chatted with a few folks who have spent their entire lives working in climate science while being employed by the oil industry. They're some of the most moderate, intelligent, considered people I've ever talked to. And most people hear "a climate scientist who works for an oil company" and assumes they're the worst sort - a profiteer or a liar or a complicit drone. They're not leadership - they don't get to deci…

> Now... the leadership folks who commissioned these predictions and then ignored them... That's another matter! Ok, you made me curious. What were they supposed to do? Stop drilling and selling oil? Ask the government for increased taxes to take care of externalities? Dismantle the corporation? Just resign and go find a job in a different industry?

[flagged]

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#125

Post by ulfw »

erulabs wrote: post #85

I've chatted with a few folks who have spent their entire lives working in climate science while being employed by the oil industry. They're some of the most moderate, intelligent, considered people I've ever talked to. And most people hear "a climate scientist who works for an oil company" and assumes they're the worst sort - a profiteer or a liar or a complicit drone. They're not leadership - they don't get to deci…

Then what's the point of working at a place that for decades won't ever listen to what you have to say? Isn't that frustrating? Especially as an intelligent person who might care about the research you're doing.

I am very conflicted of this. Do people just get good pay so they can be ignored/shut up?

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#126

Post by tablarasa »

fwungy wrote: post #89

State oil companies dwarf the international producers like Exxon by a factor of 10-20, depending on how you count. All the wonderful carbon free schemes ignore the fact that these state owned oil companies hold trillions in oil wealth in reserves. How do you get these states (e.g. Putin/Russia) to walk away from that money? This is why we need to think about mitigation strategies a lot harder.

Offer a cheaper alternative and you don't have to worry about what they think

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#127

Post by sli »

nickersonm wrote: post #40
mschuster91 wrote: post #14

Surprise, surprise. And yet, Big Oil continued to launch campaigns designed to deflect responsibility from companies and governments away to individual consumers, like BP's "carbon footprint" [1]. When will those responsible be held accountable for helping to advance the destruction of climate and the immense loss of life and property that climate change has brought? How can we explain to our children and grandchildr…

Yet these companies aren't the ones actually burning the oil, are they? They merely sell the product which others then burn. How can you hold only them responsible but excuse the parties further downstream?

You would be right if they didn't lobby against e.g. public transit. As it is right now, especially in the US, many people are forced by circumstance and lobbying to own and maintain a car, and usually it's an ICE car. Acting like they are blameless because millions and millions of people have no choice in the matter is just wildly disingenuous.

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#128

Post by smackeyacky »

fwungy wrote: post #96
shawnb576 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK well then, we'd better not do anything about it! I don't think this is strictly true. Oil production is not fully fungible due to all kinds of issues including sanctions and production capacity. But this is also a strawman - this isn't saying "we should shut them all down" or even begging that question. At a minimum it's saying "there were people and companies who intentionally chose to mislead the public on a pot…

https://www.aei.org/economics/environmental-energy-economics... I never said don't do anything. What I believe is that we need to balance carbon elimination w/ carbon mitigation and not put all our eggs in the elimination basket. We've got one chance to do this right.

I suspect we had one chance to do it right, but the organised and widespread suppression and misinformation campaigns of these companies basically made that impossible.

Now we're faced with a range of unpalatable choices and a population fiercely divided about what to do.

Great job oil companies.

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#129

Post by yreg »

kitkat_new wrote: post #119
ars wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are around 10% of total energy usage, this would have only minimal impact. I agree about the research, but that's unrelated to the point I was making.

cycling, going vegan, renewables

Yes, and we can also not use plastic straws and eat seasonal vegetable, but it doesn't change that much compared to the amount of fossils we needlessly burn.

Re: Exxon made ‘breathtakingly’ accurate climate predictions in 1970s and 80s

#130

Post by secretsatan »

credit_guy wrote: post #116
erulabs wrote: post #85

I've chatted with a few folks who have spent their entire lives working in climate science while being employed by the oil industry. They're some of the most moderate, intelligent, considered people I've ever talked to. And most people hear "a climate scientist who works for an oil company" and assumes they're the worst sort - a profiteer or a liar or a complicit drone. They're not leadership - they don't get to deci…

> Now... the leadership folks who commissioned these predictions and then ignored them... That's another matter! Ok, you made me curious. What were they supposed to do? Stop drilling and selling oil? Ask the government for increased taxes to take care of externalities? Dismantle the corporation? Just resign and go find a job in a different industry?

I've been noticing this shift for a while now, from it's not happening, to, well, it's happened now, and there was nothing that could have been done.
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