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We need a lot more electricians

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Re: We need a lot more electricians

#521

Post by 98codes »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Not just electrical -- pretty much any system or major structure in your house. We had to have a few minor repairs done to our roof, but due to newly passed regulations (and a 45° roof pitch), the roofers needed to also install roof anchor points (beefy D-rings basically) for their safety before they did anything else. Anecdata, sure, but plumbing, sewer, foundations all have similar stories.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#522

Post by 98codes »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #504
atoav wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that means somewhere there is current flowing through some pipe, some wall, something. And that is bad. 30mA is not much of a threshold, but it has been chosen because currents above that (or currents that flow longer than the 0,03s it should take maximum to trip an RCD will kill people. Not to speak of fire hazards. So, somewhere you have a thing, that could kill you, a firend, a loved one or whomever. And you…

> And you decide to ignore it because money Absolutely not. We will get it fixed, the electrician just didn't have the time at that point, he's coming back to find the leak

Hopefully with the breaker for that circuit turned off in the meantime.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#523

Post by Kirby64 »

bombcar wrote: post #92
sbradford26 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah an induction range most likely wouldn't require any more power than a resistive range. The only caveat to that is that higher end ranges might have higher power draws due to having more burners and such and induction ranges tend to be the higher end. That being said it looks like most ranges require a 40 amp circuit now, while code now requires wiring a new range outlet for 50 amps even if you put a 40 amp break…

As an aside, for those watching from home - you can put LARGER connections downstream of smaller ones (50 amp outlet on a 40 amp breaker) because the worst case is your breaker will flip. You can put SMALLER outlets on a larger breaker (40 amp outlet on a 50 amp breaker) because the outlet is SUPPOSED to keep you from overloading it (and the outlet will actually be rated for more than the "plug size") The DANGER you…

This is an exception to the electric code, not the rule.

Almost every outlet must be paired with the appropriate wire size and breaker. A 30A outlet must be backed with a 30A breaker (no exceptions!) and wire must be at least capable of carrying 30 amps. There's also restrictions on wire size based on the outlet/breaker, since certain breakers/outlets cannot handle certain wire sizes. For instance, NEMA 5-15 outlets generally can't support wire sizes above 12 gauge, so you're limited to 12 or 14 gauge only.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#524

Post by cinntaile »

vel0city wrote: post #244
cinntaile wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to say that the risk to lose electricity is bigger than the risk to lose the other heat sources? Wouldn't houses at risk have some sort of contingency measures in place such as insulated pipes, alternative heat sources,..?

> Are you trying to say that the risk to lose electricity is bigger than the risk to lose the other heat sources? From my personal experiences, yes. Gas pipelines are practically always buried, electricity lines are often overhead and subject to storm damage. There have been dozens of times in my life where electricity is out but natural gas infrastructure is still available.

I wonder what causes this, the gas infrastructure needs electricity for the compressors too but maybe they have auxiliary power at each pump station? Some pressure reduction is probably acceptable too so there might be "automatic" redundancy.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#525

Post by shard »

crgwbr wrote: post #489
sokoloff wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt that your freezer max draw is 35W. An Energy Star freezer can only average ~25W across the entire year. I doubt that the peak is less than 1.4x the average draw. A fridge max power draw is usually during the defrost cycle. My defrost heater measures a bit over 500W.

You’re probably right, but I did watch my freezer plugged into a kill-a-watt for a while, and even when the compressor first kicked on, I never saw anything higher than 35W. Maybe the kill-a-watt is inaccurate, or maybe it doesn’t update fast enough, I’m not sure. Another factor, too: it doesn’t have any sort of auto defrost.

Different models and different designs and everything, but just as another data point, I recall my chest freezer pulling 300W+ when the compressor kicks on, and likely higher transient spikes, as it kept burning out the fuse on my 500W transformer, and I had to switch to a 1kW one.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#527

Post by chaosite »

techie128 wrote: post #280
chaosite wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if the power shuts off and that saves me from electrocuting myself, I couldn't care less how much of the rest of the house lost power. The annoying part is when I plug in some faulty device that is not immediately dangerous and that shuts down power to the whole house.

> The annoying part is when I plug in some faulty device that is not immediately dangerous Do you mind, re-reading that statement? I don't even understand that argument. You should not be plugging in faulty devices in the first place...

Of course I should not be plugging in faulty devices. But sometimes appliances that were fine before break down, perhaps some insulation broke down or just the ravages of time.

I would absolutely like that to be safe. And like I said, if it's immediately life-saving, then I don't mind the power to the whole house being cut. But if it's "just" a bad appliance, then, well, I do find it a bit annoying that it reset all my electronics, and I would have preferred it if only that specific outlet was effected.

But I would still very much like the protection.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#529

Post by yourapostasy »

culebron21 wrote: post #488
yourapostasy wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. When I build my own residence from scratch, I'm going for a more industrial loft aesthetic vibe where all utilities are run outside the walls where they are easily accessible to frequently modify them as I please. I want to be able to frequently update to code without making a giant, expensive mess, followed by a validation inspection from a licen…

How many operations in the US require a licensed electrician? And is the inspection required everywhere?

The rules around this are fairly complex and there are individual state and even county- and city-level compliance codes, so I can only be fairly hand-wavy in a general sense.

For commercial or industrial work above a certain scale and complexity, you probably won't even be able to find a licensed electrician to validate work done by non-licensed personnel for sign off to send up to an inspector. I wouldn't consider a 1MW+ (or anything starting off with a 480V three-phase service) data center appropriate to install with non-licensed staff. There are gray areas the smaller and more residential scale you get. I've seen some pretty awful work funded by apartment complex flippers using non-licensed personnel, for example.

Once you are talking about common residential (anything less than 300A, where the average US house is usually around 100-200A, dual single-phase 110V service) though, it depends more upon finding a licensed electrician who agrees to a proposal to validate your work. This is not very popular because it is considered like a mechanic called in to inspect a shade tree mechanic's work or your relatives you only see around Christmas time proposing to pay you to inspect their attempt to clean up after a ransomware attack. But it does happen.

Assuming you can find and convince such a licensed electrician, you can do practically anything in such a residential context. It's a lot of work, and if you're a decent software engineer you aren't really saving much money. It would be the sort of thing to do if sloppy electrician work that doesn't meet the standards of r/wireporn or r/cableporn for example just drives you bonkers, and you happen to really like nerding out over strictly interpreting the intricacies of NFPA 70, National Electrical Code (NEC) with others, and you simply like having the satisfaction of knowing your electrical subsystem that well. If you squint hard enough, the NEC almost takes on a life of its own like source code, which appeals to a lot of technical types, so it isn't hard to find engineers and technicians of different stripes in aerospace, mechanical, civil, etc. doing this kind of DIY.

Code compliance inspections are required, but unless you are lighting up new service for example, enforcement varies pretty dramatically between locales. Again, I've seen some pretty shady disasters waiting to happen from flippers, but the city is none the wiser because no permits were pulled.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#530

Post by quickthrowman »

greedo wrote: post #312
quickthrowman wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most jurisdictions in the US allow homeowners to self-perform electrical work. Electrical inspectors tend to be a lot more picky and thorough with homeowner performed work since homeowners are notoriously bad electricians.

I did all the wiring in my basement (except connecting to the panel), and the inspector did a cursory inspection, both rough-in and final. He looked at maybe two of the outlets (none of the lighting fixtures), and then on final just used a receptacle checker. Now as a DIYer with OCD and a fear of burning down my house, I had tried to be VERY careful, but it was the first electrical work I had done. Either I'm an elec…

Most of the mistakes homeowners make when doing electrical work are related to NM cable strapping (not enough straps typically), pigtails that are too short, junction boxes that arent properly secured, and inaccessible junction boxes.

He probably just checked to make sure you strapped the NM cable within 8-12” of the box (depending on if you have cable clamps or not) and then a strap every 54”. If you get the small details right they won’t be so harsh while inspecting.

If you are careful and follow the rules, it’s pretty straightforward to wire branch circuits in a house. Grounding and bonding a service entrance panelboard to ground rods/natural gas piping/water piping is not as straightforward as it seems.

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