Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites • Hacker News Board

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#141

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

ndriscoll wrote: post #140

shadowgovt wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Restricted functionality is a security benefit This is a common trope I hear but I'm not sure it's true any longer. One of the reasons Google login requires JavaScript to be enabled is to fix flaws in non-JS HTML that allow for hijacking passwords. It's why they took a much harder line on simple auth a few years back; too many instances of people being tricked into handing their Gmail account to scammers.

What flaws allow sites to hijack passwords if pages aren't programmable? Are you talking about phishing, and how would js help? My mental model here is that the browser's password manager autofills a password that the user doesn't even know, and without scripting or dynamic resources, it's not possible to exfiltrate that data automatically. Without styling, form buttons would have a standard look so it's harder to tr…

HTML and CSS alone allow you to concoct a webpage where a user's input appears to be going to one place but is in fact going somewhere else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framekiller

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#142

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #138

shadowgovt wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Apple, Windows, and various GNU/Linux distros (as they can also run Chrome and Firefox, i.e. two of the most popular apps, plug in a mouse and keyboard, do 99% of the "computer stuff," so they're fine). Chromebook is probably on the fence since you really have to beat it with a hammer to run Excel on it (depending on how you turn your head and squint, that's maybe true for Linux also, but you can get Excel runn…

Yeah let's stop here, you say people think Linux can run "general-purpose apps" but a raspi cant. Just stop try to prove your right...by moving the goalposts. Arduino is a Micro-controller, Raspberrypi is a SBC -> Single board computer. >>and user community that designs and manufactures single-board microcontrollers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino >>Raspberry Pi (/paɪ/) is a series of small single-board compute…

No, a RasPi is a GNU/Linux platform and can run general-purpose apps. You misunderstood my comparison; RasPi is a computer.

I'm saying nobody considers an Arduino a "computer" in the same category as a Raspberry Pi is a computer (and similarly, nobody should consider Kristall a web browser, though it is something else, which is cool).

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#143

Post by culi » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #44

bambax wrote: post #40

Hacker News on Kristall: https://imgur.com/a/lhq8iCw http, https are disabled by default, they need to be enabled in File/Settings/Generic. I was hoping it would be a single executable but (on Windows) it's 56 files: 1 exe, 33 dedicated dlls, 22 translation files. Google Search does not work, it's impossible to get past the cookie consent page: https://imgur.com/a/daGMASS (Same thing happens if one tries to put the s…

I think (extremely) rudementary CSS support would fix many of these cases. You don't need to support more than the basic layout constraints, but you need something so sites like DDG's search page without Javascript can work. I believe Google will still work on very old browsers through something like user agent sniffing, maybe setting the UA to IE5 will trick it into rendering HTML that might actually work (though th…

Or even just supporting user stylesheets like the original browsers intended

Nowadays you have to install an extension just to get this promised feature

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#144

Post by vanderZwan » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #126

residualmind wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're "selling" a TV as a TV when the world has switched to using full-blown mind-control shopping malls as TVs.

IMO the better comparison is selling a 9” black and white TV with only an OTA antenna as input as a TV in 2023: technically correct, wildly out of whack with customer expectations.

Given that customer expectations of TVs now include being normalized to TVs getting slower with updates that cannot be avoided without jumping through hoops, sometimes even bricked, and occasionally even showing ads because the company you bought it from decided they needed to extract more wealth from you, that is pretty spot on. But perhaps not how many people think it is.

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#145

Post by toastal » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

dig1 wrote: post #73

lynx, links, eww (from Emacs) and edbrowse [1] entered the chat ;) Especially edbrowse, which I find weirdly powerful. [1] https://edbrowse.org/

No elinks or w3m?

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#146

Post by spookie » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

abhijeetpbodas wrote: post #67

Interesting that their website itself uses CSS: view-source: https://kristall.random-projects.net/style.css

Looks like that through gemini via their browser.

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#147

Post by phpnode » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

kgbcia wrote: post #91

I'm a fan of Lynx. React and angular have destroyed the semantic web.

There has never been a semantic web

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#148

Post by nix23 » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #142

nix23 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let's stop here, you say people think Linux can run "general-purpose apps" but a raspi cant. Just stop try to prove your right...by moving the goalposts. Arduino is a Micro-controller, Raspberrypi is a SBC -> Single board computer. >>and user community that designs and manufactures single-board microcontrollers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino >>Raspberry Pi (/paɪ/) is a series of small single-board compute…

No, a RasPi is a GNU/Linux platform and can run general-purpose apps. You misunderstood my comparison; RasPi is a computer. I'm saying nobody considers an Arduino a "computer" in the same category as a Raspberry Pi is a computer (and similarly, nobody should consider Kristall a web browser, though it is something else, which is cool).

> a raspi is a GNU/Linux platform

I run BSD/BSD on it and it's not a platform but a Computer.

>nobody considers an Arduino a "computer"

True, because it's a f*** Microcontroller understood?

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#149

Post by cpsns » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:33 PM UTC

ianpurton wrote: post #27

What's the problem that this fixes?

Why must it fix a problem?

Re: Kristall – a browser without support for CSS/JS/WASM or graphical websites

#150

Post by spookie » Thu, Jan 12, 2023, 4:33 PM UTC

BizarreByte wrote: post #99

I don’t think I’ve ever seen HN react so negatively to a project, but I think that has to do with the image people have of what a “browser” is. Kristall isn’t very useful for HTTP even though it supports the protocol. That said its goal is the “small internet” and very basic sites on HTTP will work, which is is inline with that goal. Some have complained even Google search doesn’t work, but Google search doesn’t fall…

Peoples sense of the internet is just a corporate engulfed dystopia, they don't see a reason behind this because they haven't experienced what it could be otherwise.