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Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

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Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#291
post #271

Just switched back to windows after a decade with macos. It seem that microsoft care way more about developers at the moment than Apple does. So much good stuff, open source, Linux subsystem, vscode, copilot, documentation, plugins, etc. Things works and are cheap and plentiful. Beside the sleek and high quality hardware, nothing is missing.

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Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#292
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really the case. Rust code is almost as complex as C or C++ for any non-trivial application.

That’s just not true. Just the fact that you can reuse libraries easily makes Rust much easier. That combined with memory safety means that the two biggest headaches of C and C++ are just gone.

I don't know why you are being downvoted, but in my experience this is exactly right.

The pain of adding third party C++ dependencies is undeniable, especially in a cross-platform manner. I've had the displeasure of maintaining three different C++ build systems in 3 different companies, and they were all a nightmare.

Contrast that with cargo that just... works.

Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#293

The removal of C from Android and iOS is going to pay off massively. The current state of things where every government is sitting on an endless collection of exploits is not ideal.

While it's a very real advance, there will still be a nearly endless supply of 0 days, they just won't be memory exploits anymore.

Google has real world data on over 1M lines of Rust in Android and found that based on expected bug frequency they have astonishing few bugs due to Rust.

Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#294
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think Swift and Rust are competing on the same grounds or for the same objective? Genuinely curious, i don't know much about Rust.

I watched a Rust intro video recently that provided a perspective I liked, so I’ll share that here: MS, Apple, Google (and more) all relied heavily on C for low level code that needed to be as performant as possible. It turned out though that C‘s memory management is so problematic that many/most security issues are caused by it. To address that, Google invented Go, Apple made Swift, Mozilla gave us Rust etc. MS is i…

> Mozilla gave us Rust

Sorry for the nit but Mozilla didn’t give us Rust. They sponsored some of its development but that was only 3ish years after Rust started.

Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not describe Rust as being particularly ergonomic. While it is a suitable replacement for C++, that is not necessarily a high standard to meet.

I have to agree. I find writing Rust painful (probably my fault) and I'm used to writing C & C++.

There maybe a causality there ...

Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#296
post #280
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xcode has its flaws but mostly it's pretty great to work in. With it available for the vast majority of current Swift programmers, it's a hard market to break into.

Xcode is slow and requires a huge amount of disk space (50gb free space just to install it). Also you can check reviews in AppStore. Current rating is 3.2.

Sounds like a great market opportunity then!

Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#297
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However degraded the Apple UX is from the glory days, as someone who recently converted over from Windows I can assure you the UX there is garbage. Compared to 2022 Apple.

I don’t know, you don’t need plugins on windows to get a descent window manager. I use Rectangle and AltTab on mac, this should be default features.

Ok, I can definitely agree with that. They could do a lot more with the window manager. I think there are a couple other pain points I've had along those lines (things that should be in the base system, but aren't). Stuff like, how do I reverse the scroll direction _only_ when I have a mouse plugged in? The answer "oh go install this plugin and give it full access to your mouse and keyboard" is pretty underwhelming.

But I do stand by the statement that overall, the experience is a lot better on MacOS

Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#298
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, as they said, they're "cross platform" but really only exist in one place.

That's not the case for PowerShell, though. Take a look at the list of supported platforms here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/scripting/insta...

I suppose their point is that much as you can install and run PowerShell outside Windows, you can run Swift outside Apple's ecosystem. People just don't do either of those things very often.

Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#299
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and it means Swift scripts and modules that don’t reference UIKit/AppKit/SwiftUI/Combine will run on Linux and possibly Windows with zero or little modification. I‘m a little sad though that they didn’t start this endeavor years ago, because IMO Rust has already built so much momentum that it will win (for the popular, medium to long term definition of „winning“).

Swift would never have won, and will never win, while it's so closely associated with Apple. Many people in positions of power believe (correctly) that Apple will always put its own needs above everyone else's. Those are the people who have chosen Rust.

It is enough to win on Apple platforms.

Re: Apple announces full Swift rewrite of the Foundation framework (2022)

#300
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foundation was developed for the needs of EOF so it makes sense there was a version for the Java WebObjects. There's almost certainly NeXT-derived code in macOS/iOS with a longer pedigree and a bunch of it will probably outlast the Foundation rewrite. As software evolution goes, it's an astonishingly long run, no doubt. Especially for a technology that very nearly went extinct.

Huh, Foundation was developed for EOF? (Enterprise Object Framework; it was actually very much like Rails ActiveRecord). I did not realize that, I always figured it came first.

There were already many Rails like frameworks when it came to be, I never understood the hype, specially since I was part of one written in TCL back in 1999, whose core team went on to create OutSystems in 2001.
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