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The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

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71–80 of 228 posts

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#71
If I were king:

1) Free time-saver perks for all hospital staff. I'm talking cleaners to the houses, pre-cooked take-home family meals, the whole nine yards.

2) Temporarily lower the threshold for trained medical professionals. There are many students and immigrants with plenty of education and skills. Get them in hospitals until we reach the point where it becomes a space issue rather than a staffing one. Give more experienced staff priority pick on working hours. Stem the bleeding and stop the work exhaustion/burnout.

3) Start longer term efforts to ramp up training of medical professionals. It's only gonna get worse with the baby boomers retiring and needing their own care.

4) Tell "big insurance" and "big healthcare" to put up or shut up. Slap on metrics and quotas focused on efficiency and net outcomes. Tweak the metrics until they get the picture. Set the bars high enough that the majority of issues are solved if the bar is met. If they can't meet the bar, hit their pocket books until they go bankrupt, nationalize them, then convert to single payer.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#72

"Up in the ICU hopeless 95 year olds will sit on ventilators and other life support machines for weeks because doctors don’t have any discretion in stopping futile care. You can be a 30 year old pregnant woman, and you will die waiting for your ICU bed in the emergency room." I recently went through a situation where my family member was the 95 year old. The immediate family had no basis to judge whether the care bei…

Just so it's clear, you decided not to discontinue care, and to continue their care, correct?

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I could see a single payer system having the same problems. You can look at the UK right now. The root problem has nothing to do with health insurance companies or who is paying. The problem is drastic increases in net benefit recipients relative to net payers/labor providers into the system. I.e. declining proportions of healthy, working people willing to provide labor at a sufficiently low price, such that in orde…

To be fair, the current govt is preciding over a (self inflicted) economic collapse in all areas, not just the NHS. And ultimately voters have no-one to blame but themselves. (or half of them anyway.) leaving the EU is epically dumb on a truly impressive scale. So now looking at the NHS, complaining about under-funding and under-staffing, when those were completely predictable outcomes of Brexit isn't going to inform…

> So now looking at the NHS, complaining about under-funding and under-staffing, when those were completely predictable outcomes of Brexit isn't going to inform good health system forces.

I don't agree with this. I don't live in Britain, so I'm not fully aware of how Brexit has affected things over there.

I live in France. Didn't leave the EU, as a matter of fact it's one of the countries pushing the most for it. Same issues with the health system. A few months ago we were rationing paracetamol. Now we're back to not allowing sales of it online because of shortages.

I'm not saying Brexit helped, but I doubt it was the main cause, seeing how the same exact effect happened elsewhere, at the same time, while staying in the EU.

It would seem to me that, for whatever reason, many countries chose efficiency of the healthcare system above all else. Meaning closure of hospital beds, reduction of medical staff, etc.

This may be great for producing cheap Toyotas. No one cares if theirs is one week late because something unforeseen came up. It doesn't work as well for medical emergencies.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#74
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>concierge doc Can you please elaborate? I need something like this and I'm willing and able to pay for it. How would I get started finding one?

Basically, like a doctor with a membership club. Generally doesn't take your insurance, although some services might covered by your insurance. Good example is MDVIP - https://www.mdvip.com/ . I have no relation to the company other than being a customer. I pay $1,600 a year for my Mom to be a member and it's the best money I've ever spent.

Thank you. My local practioners are terrible and border on being unethical.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#75

This seems like a good spot to repost a few passages from Limits to Medicine, Medical Nemesis: The Expropriation of Health by Ivan Illich, 1974: "A world of optimal and widespread health is obviously a world of minimal and only occasional medical intervention. Healthy people are those who live in healthy homes, on a healthy diet, in an environment equally fit for birth, growth, work, healing, and dying; they are sust…

The alternative you ask for then, is for people to merely die and suffer in pain while doing so. In the past, that's what we did, because there just was no option for such people. I looked up Ivan Illich, and this essay critiques modern medicine as creating "lifelong patients." That indeed is what has happened, but the alternative is for people to just die. The reality really is I don't really believe anyone ever too…

[deleted]

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#76
post #47
post #27

I have a question, which you may not know the answer to, but I'm just asking it to everybody these days. Let's say hypothetically that all the medical providers suddenly all decide to stop being evil. They increase staffing to safe ratios. They even have extra staff so people can take vacations and have days off without it being a problem. They give everyone very good compensation and the big time administrators stop…

The deeper problem is the demographic pyramid. We have lots of old people and the younger generation is smaller. Of course there's not enough caretakers, which is why the US systematically imports them from other countries, leaving those countries with the same problems. Ultimately, there is no escaping the market. No amount of public-funding, socialism, or outright communism can escape the simple facts of supply and…

I don't disagree that the population pyramid shape is a root factor. And that shape is likely to get worse, not better as time goes on.

Given that it's not "solvable" (at least not without a nice pandemic targeting old people, who can be convinced not to protect themselves) it's worth then looking at "best", not necessarily "perfect", systems that may deal with it.

The approach of "best healthcare for those who can afford it" is one way to go. All resources ploughed into some sub-section of humanity, those who can pay the most.

Or we might go with "good healthcare for everyone", so alas limited heart transplants.

And I get it. There will be winners and losers. At an individual level you can have all the money in the world, and yet die when some poor person is ahead of you in a queue. "Surely the queue should be in order of net-wealth?".

No system is going to make every medical intervention on all patients all the time. We won't in fact live forever.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the current system is the best alternative. (unless you're a share-holder, then it clearly is.)

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#77
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obamacare dramatically increased deductibles, in the name of providing "coverage" to everyone. What ends up happening is people don't pay the deductive. What does this mean? The Affordable Care Act did not directly increase deductibles. It even provided huge subsidies from the young and healthy to the poor and old via age rating factors, restricting of pricing criteria (removal of pre existing conditions exclusions…

> The Affordable Care Act did not directly increase deductibles. My deductible before the ACA was around $500 before, and around $4000 after. In one year it changed that much. Other people I've spoken with had the same experience. > It even provided huge subsidies from the young and healthy to the poor Only to people not in employee health care plans, which always have high deductibles. > about their premiums going u…

> My deductible before the ACA was around $500 before, and around $4000 after. In one year it changed that much. Other people I've spoken with had the same experience.

I meant the deductible increase was not a statutory part of ACA, but an inevitable part due to the drastic increase in benefits (all preventative care, all medicines assuming there was efficacy data, out of pocket maximum instead of benefit maximum).

Before ACA, insurance could deny you healthcare easily. After ACA, they had to provide the benefit, even if the medicine cost $1M per month, and the insurance company could not choose to drop you as an insured.

> Only to people not in employee health care plans, which always have high deductibles.

As far as I know, this applies to all ACA compliant health plans, even ones that employers subsidize:

https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums

> I'm not seeing the connection. People can buy whatever plan they want, receiving the money in cash doesn't force people into any particular risk pool. Not to mention the ACA majorly combined pools, and in fact did cause premiums to go up for this exact reason.

Being part of an employer subsidized insurance plan’s risk pool can result in you being in a better risk pool than the public ones on healthcare.gov. For example, white collar businesses with lots of young, healthy employees like law firms and tech companies.

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#78
The New York times recently had an excellent piece on how exorbitant greed, even in the non-profit side of healthcare, has decimated its quality over the last decades.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/15/business/hospital-staffin...

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#79
Wrote Hacking Healthcare for O'Reilly, created ClearHealth/HealthCould open source EMR, built and operated ~90 acute care management services organizations (MSO) (the "things" that operate the non-medical aspects of many acute care systems).

Healthcare is highly dysfuctional but I want to dampen the notion a little bit that it is in some unique and new kind of collapse today. Everything you are stating is nearly verbatim what was being said in the 1980s at the dawn of HMO legislation which was somehow supposed to fix things.

There has been a lot of pushing the food around the plate since then. My view is that there are three legs to the tripod of the healthcare system, providers, patients and insurers. For fourty years those three legs have been fighting each other on many fronts and no leg is willing to give substantial ground. If I had a magic wand I would bring into existence a being of profound integrity and leadership that could negotiate meaningful compromises between those three groups but I think practically speaking, that is a pipe dream. The current status quo will continue, more or less, how it is for several decades yet.

I will agree with the other comentator that if you are sick a direct access primary care doctor or concierge doctor can really help. In many cases they can end up saving money versus deductibles and by helping you find specialists and facilities in your budget and timeframe. They vary but can be found in most markets for $1500 - $3000 per year. That's not cheap by any means but something that can pay for itself quickly.

I would also say to OP, seriously consider becoming a direct access provider. Feel free to reach out to me and I can put you in touch with some folks who you can talk to. You are not alone in your sentiment and in large part those sentiments are what led to the creation of direct primary care.

du@50km.com

Re: The Collapse of U.S. Healthcare – The Perspective of a Primary Care Physician

#80
post #27

I have a question, which you may not know the answer to, but I'm just asking it to everybody these days. Let's say hypothetically that all the medical providers suddenly all decide to stop being evil. They increase staffing to safe ratios. They even have extra staff so people can take vacations and have days off without it being a problem. They give everyone very good compensation and the big time administrators stop…

I personally think the way your question is framed is kind of an example of how insidious the influence of the current system is.

It's not a matter of "are there enough humans who have sufficient training in medicine who are willing and able to fill all those positions?" It's are there enough humans with sufficient training in whatever positions there could be to meet the health needs that exist?

Just for example: it's pretty clear many things done by physicians could be done by other providers, like pharmacists, psychologists, dentists, optometrists, if we broadened our idea of what those specialties (and their subspecialties) could look like. There are also probably types of providers that could exist that don't exist at all now, that we're not imagining because the healthcare system makes so many assumptions about what it looks like. Maybe all these things will involve additional training opportunities or whatever, but if you let people do what they are capable of, they'll find a way.

Sure, train more physicians. They'd be there. But you'll find even more people willing to do all sorts of things in ways we aren't currently imagining. We're constrained by convention.

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