Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FAA NOTAM System Outage

fly.faa.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 230 posts

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#201

Post by TechBro8615 »

smlacy wrote: post #196
TechBro8615 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an outlandish claim that a technical glitch happened today that caused such a degree of widespread outage that the FAA had to take a step it hadn't taken since September 11, 2001.

Your belief isn't evidence, and you shouldn't present it as such.

A vague statement from the FAA isn't evidence either, just like a statement from the CDC not to buy masks isn't evidence they don't work to protect against a virus.

And I'm not claiming I have any evidence other than publicly observable patterns relating to both technical glitches and government transparency.

I'm speculating, based on the fact that technical glitches usually occur more than once every 21 years (or even less frequently, since 9/11 grounding was not due to a technical glitch), and that government agencies often lie to the public, that the FAA is not telling the whole truth.

And that is my right to do when commenting pseudonymously on an internet forum. You are similarly free to disagree with me or defer to your blind fealty to a government agency.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#202

Post by oceanplexian »

someguydave wrote: post #107
VLM wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a flight planning mystery. Lets say you are not flying to, but flying by, my hometown airport. You decide arbitrarily to use it as a divert in case of awful weather or engine trouble enroute or you just want a bathroom break (this is more of a Cessna 172 airport than a 747 airport) I found a cached list of nine current NOTAMs for my home airport. Because its always better to overinform than to underinform, until…

Is someone who is planning multiple divert airports seriously expected to retain all of that information and recall it in the case of an emergency? Seems like 10% of that info might be kinda useful to know and 90% of it is “BY FLYING IN OUR DIRECTION YOU AGREED TO ACCEPT …”

> Is someone who is planning multiple divert airports seriously expected to retain all of that information and recall it in the case of an emergency?

I am a pilot and yes, you are absolutely expected to be aware of all NOTAMS relevant to your flight.

FAA examiners will make you do it on checkrides, and depending on how cute they are feeling that day, they may very well quiz you, and will gleefully fail you because you weren't aware that, say, one particular runway was out of service, or there was a runway light out somewhere.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#203

Post by Scoundreller »

bombcar wrote: post #141
maxcan wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. As a GA pilot who mostly flies under IFR, the NOTAM system is borderline useless to me. For every warning about an approach being altered or a runway closed, there are 100s of "birds invof airport" or "unlit crane 50' AGL 5 miles from the field" NOTAMs. And even for the relevant NOTAMs, Foreflight will highlight them for approaches etc and ATC won't send you to a closed runway or taxiway.

Yeah, NOTAMs come into play when the shit hits the fan; radios are dead and you can't reach the tower kinda thing, but in that case just be sure you declared emergency, then they (probably) won't get you much for landing on a closed runway or a taxiway.

What if the tower’s radio goes down?

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#204

Post by pookha »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #142

TIL that NOTAM now stands for "Notice to Air Missions." Back when I was flying it was "Notice to Airmen." Wondered when they would get around to fixing that. Guess they finally did.

They JUST changed it. Made a point of signifying to the masses about it last month: https://generalaviationnews.com/2021/12/07/notams-are-now-no...

What this tells me is a group of government busy-workers are playing around with complex systems that can dramatically impact millions of people.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#205

Post by mike_d »

maxcan wrote: post #136
bombcar wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun but deadly. They’re not wrong about the absolute avalanche of irrelevant data that will be used to show you “you should have known” - hence the proliferation of “interpretation” services.

100%. As a GA pilot who mostly flies under IFR, the NOTAM system is borderline useless to me. For every warning about an approach being altered or a runway closed, there are 100s of "birds invof airport" or "unlit crane 50' AGL 5 miles from the field" NOTAMs. And even for the relevant NOTAMs, Foreflight will highlight them for approaches etc and ATC won't send you to a closed runway or taxiway.

It's all fun and games until you have an F-16 head butting you because you didn't pay attention to NOTAMs and the Vice President happens to be visiting your town.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#206

Post by t0mas88 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #203
bombcar wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, NOTAMs come into play when the shit hits the fan; radios are dead and you can't reach the tower kinda thing, but in that case just be sure you declared emergency, then they (probably) won't get you much for landing on a closed runway or a taxiway.

What if the tower’s radio goes down?

They have backup transmitters and if everything fails (tower evacuation has happened) you talk to the overlying approach / tracon / center frequencies to check. And then after that, land anyway and self announce positions for other traffic.

It's basically the same as landing at an airport that doesn't have a tower. Happens every day at hundreds of airports.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#207

Post by someguydave »

oceanplexian wrote: post #202
someguydave wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is someone who is planning multiple divert airports seriously expected to retain all of that information and recall it in the case of an emergency? Seems like 10% of that info might be kinda useful to know and 90% of it is “BY FLYING IN OUR DIRECTION YOU AGREED TO ACCEPT …”

> Is someone who is planning multiple divert airports seriously expected to retain all of that information and recall it in the case of an emergency? I am a pilot and yes, you are absolutely expected to be aware of all NOTAMS relevant to your flight. FAA examiners will make you do it on checkrides, and depending on how cute they are feeling that day, they may very well quiz you, and will gleefully fail you because yo…

The implication is that someone planning a long cross country trip may have dozens of NOTAMS at many diversion airports to review. At some point all the NOTAM lawyering seems a bit much.

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#208

Post by kfrzcode »

wildrhythms wrote: post #92
kfrzcode wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure CNN is the "best" way to get the news. Try this: https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page No ads, no adds, no filler, no filters. Make the news objective again. Repeal Smith-Mundt. https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/5736

I went to Wikinews (now) and there isn't a single mention about all US flights being grounded. https://archive.is/rtugM

There's an app for that! https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Breaking_news

Re: FAA NOTAM System Outage

#210

Post by watersb »

ru552 wrote: post #113
watersb wrote: post #67

REALLY IMPORTANT NOTAMS tend to alert pilots to RESTRICTED AIRSPACE or AREAS OF UNUSUAL AIR OPERATIONS. You can't fly anywhere near the President of the United States, the movements of which can change from day to day. We get NOTAMS about military aircraft operations; often military airspace which is usually permitted may be shut down for a week or so. Wildfire tanker operations or other natural emergencies can close…

They are also for notifying pilots of potential caution areas. I used to operate a 550+ meter tower and when I had a tower light out, I had to file a NOTAM.

Cool, you filed NOTAMs; I just read them.

If you like lots of daily mail, become responsible for the operation of a Cessna 172 (Skyhawk), the type of aircraft with the most units built of any, ever. Endless variations.

Unending stream of paper NOTAMS via US first class post office... at least, when I had a 172, 20 years ago.

These notices are exactly like a recall notice on an automobile: get someone to validate the steering wheel etc. I would suppose that many HN readers have gone through the car hardware remediation process.

I would suppose that this class of NOTAM, although in my particular case the most common, are not immediately relevant to a total Ground Stop Order for the USA. But -- consider that airline and other commercial operators may have their own internal requirements that could ground a fleet in the absence of an ability to state that they have complied with all relevant FAA NOTAMS. Oh, the liability!!

Post reply on HN