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It's time to stop texting

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Re: It's time to stop texting

#131

Post by schvenk »

jvolkman wrote: post #101
nikeee wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the desire to just use the default app. I feel the same for most of the stuff I use. However, being based on standards is more like being based on the lowest common denominator. Moxie describes the issue pretty good in his post where he explains why signal is not federated (any more): https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/ When talking about things like encryption, RCS isn't that much better, i…

I think the only serious RCS client at this point is Google Messages, which defaults to E2EE when possible (i.e., both clients are Google Messages). All of the major US carriers have started shipping Google Messages by default. There are other clients like Samsung Messages and whatever crap carriers have tried to implement themselves, but It seems like they'll phase out.

As far as I can tell, Google Messages defaults to E2EE when possible when RCS is enabled, but RCS is disabled by default. Which basically means 80% of users don't have it turned on.

Re: It's time to stop texting

#132

Post by howinteresting »

rglullis wrote: post #76

It's time to stop using centralized messaging services, too. WhatsApp, Telegram and even Signal are platforms controlled by single entities.

If the choice is between a secure centralized app run by a nonprofit foundation (Signal) and an insecure, open protocol (SMS), the answer is quite obviously clear for 99% of people.

Re: It's time to stop texting

#133

Post by LarryMullins »

ploum wrote: post #118
LarryMullins wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very confusing to me that Europe seems generally skeptical of big American tech, but has evidently jumped straight into bed with Facebook's WhatsApp with far more enthusiasm than Americans.

Maybe because most of the initial success was before Facebook bought Whatsapp. Until recently, lot of people were ignoring that their whatsapp was part of facebook (but those people were also using facebook messenger anyway). Germany and Switzerland have some exotic secure messengers that were quite popular (and may still be) like threema. There was also some quite suprizing stuff. My inlaws were, until recently, usi…

> Maybe because most of the initial success was before Facebook bought Whatsapp.

I guess. But it doesn't really explain why it continues to be so popular, to the extent that even on forums like this (where well-grounded skepticism of big tech companies like Facebook is generally taken for granted) you have Europeans acting like Americans are backwards fools for not wanting to jump into bed with Facebook.

Re: It's time to stop texting

#134

Post by Afton »

ploum wrote: post #114
lostlogin wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem: I need to contact a new acquaintance. Solution? Talk about messaging apps. Find the intersection of the ones you both use. This is the beautiful thing about phone numbers. The likes of iMessage will use iMessage if both users have it. Imagine a world where one app could use sms, iMessage, WhatsApp, Snapchat etc. It’ll never happen, but I can dream.

Signal on Android is doing just that and I love it. But they announced that they will remove that feature due to too many users thinking that an SMS sent with Signal is secure (despite an open lock displayed next to the message)

I know this is off topic, but having spent a significant amount of time convincing people around me to use signal, once they remove this feature, literally 100% of the non-tech folks I've gotten onto signal will drop it and move back to SMS. It makes me so sad.

Re: It's time to stop texting

#135

Post by rglullis »

howinteresting wrote: post #132
rglullis wrote: post #76

It's time to stop using centralized messaging services, too. WhatsApp, Telegram and even Signal are platforms controlled by single entities.

If the choice is between a secure centralized app run by a nonprofit foundation (Signal) and an insecure, open protocol (SMS), the answer is quite obviously clear for 99% of people.

I will take "What is an example of a false dichotomy?" for $400, Alex.

What if the choices include Matrix?

Re: It's time to stop texting

#136

Post by LarryMullins »

schvenk wrote: post #124
ploum wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because most of the initial success was before Facebook bought Whatsapp. Until recently, lot of people were ignoring that their whatsapp was part of facebook (but those people were also using facebook messenger anyway). Germany and Switzerland have some exotic secure messengers that were quite popular (and may still be) like threema. There was also some quite suprizing stuff. My inlaws were, until recently, usi…

Much as I would love an open standard to win here, their track record has not been great with respect to messaging. If someone (looking at you, Google) were to jump on board with one, that could change stuff. But to be fair, most consumers aren't going to care about an open standard directly; they'll care about finding and chatting with their friends. An open standard is a great way to get there when it works, but, f…

> If someone (looking at you, Google) were to jump on board with one, that could change stuff.

Google jumped on jabber years ago, then jumped off.

Re: It's time to stop texting

#137

Post by schvenk »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #88
schvenk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Original author here) I agree with everything you said. SMS is popular for excellent reasons that are hard to overcome at this point. I wrote the article not because I expect it to create a behavioral shift at scale, but for the folks who, if they knew more, might care enough to do something—who agree with me that while sticking with SMS is easier than switching, maybe the benefits of switching are great enough to j…

Since you're here, I really dislike the opening paragraph: >Suppose you had two choices when chatting with your friends. The first will give you a great messaging experience, but you’ll need to sign up for a new app to get it. The problem is, that totally misses the actual friction point. It's not just that YOU have to do this, but so would ALL of your friends. Given how salient the rest of the post is, I'm certain t…

I take your point. It wasn't intentional in terms of hiding the truth; it was intentional in terms of opening with something strong and not too nuanced. I had hoped getting into the nuance a couple paragraphs later would suffice, but given your comment I've updated the article with a hint of it up front.

And as I argue in the article, it's not essential that ALL your friends switch. Most of us deal with fragmented communication in one form or another (unfortunately). I'm probably 20% email, 40% iMessage / SMS, 30% Telegram, 10% a smattering of other things. It's not ideal but it is reality and, if nothing else, I think starting small is an effective switching strategy.

Re: It's time to stop texting

#138

Post by jvolkman »

schvenk wrote: post #131
jvolkman wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only serious RCS client at this point is Google Messages, which defaults to E2EE when possible (i.e., both clients are Google Messages). All of the major US carriers have started shipping Google Messages by default. There are other clients like Samsung Messages and whatever crap carriers have tried to implement themselves, but It seems like they'll phase out.

As far as I can tell, Google Messages defaults to E2EE when possible when RCS is enabled, but RCS is disabled by default. Which basically means 80% of users don't have it turned on.

That's true. My reply was in the context of RCS being enabled, I guess.

Although I do think Google Messages will prompt new users to enable RCS. iMessage also isn't enabled by default as far as I'm aware.

Re: It's time to stop texting

#139

Post by schvenk »

afavour wrote: post #77

Yeah, sure, SMS sucks. But this article is missing the forest for the trees. In fact it writes off the trees entirely: > Switching platforms is a pain, and getting your friends to do it is even harder. I think the advantages are worth the pain in this case, but the pain is real. So make it easier and start small: find one friend who’s willing to experiment. Sign up together for Signal or Telegram, and take it for a s…

Yep. As you say, the vast majority of people have no problem with SMS. I wrote the article in the hopes of convincing at least a few more people to have a problem with it.

Re: It's time to stop texting

#140

Post by chaxor »

pwinnski wrote: post #92

It's time to stop using RSS for podcasts, instead let's use Spotify. It's time to stop using https, instead let's use a new protocol owned by Facebook to visit web pages. It's time to stop using IRC, instead let's use Slack. It's time to stop using email, instead let's use a proprietary messaging app. OR let's not commit everything to corporate-controlled protocols and platforms, and keep SMS, RSS, HTTPS, email, and…

They did mention Matrix - which seems to be the best and most obvious choice, if you're trying to optimize for open-source, e2ee, run-on-any-device, not-tied-to-phone, and other features.

Going for worse tech solutions will just make the discussion for which app to download for your friend group slightly shorter.

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